I am a wife, mother of 5 children and grandmother to 12 – soon to be 13. I adore my family and love spending time with them whenever I can.
My life in the Mormon Church began when two missionaries knocked on my door in Dorset, England. I felt their sincerity and desperately wanted to have that strong testimony and peace that their gospel seemed to deliver. After praying for this testimony and receiving no answer, I doubled my efforts and read and prayed some more. Despite being taught that an adulterous generation sought after signs I felt that I sorely needed just one sign to help me make the decision to join the Church. I wanted to believe what the young missionaries taught me, and wasn’t a ‘burning in the bosom’ a sign? One night as I knelt in prayer – still having received no answer, I asked God to cause some physical discomfort that would be strong enough to let me know that this was a definite answer and sure enough, a pain began in my leg and I arose from my knees in grateful assurance that joining this church was God’s plan for me (the leg pain was completely understandable considering that I had been kneeling for a very long time). I now look at this as simple confirmation bias; I wanted to believe that I had received communication from God. I was baptized on September 3rd 1967 and from that time forward I began; line upon line; precept upon precept in my journey to becoming what I hoped was a model Mormon.
Over the course of 39 years of faithful membership, I served as a Sunday school teacher to adults and youth, early morning seminary teacher, young women’s leader, relief society teacher and counselor in the presidency. Along with my husband I worked at the Bishops’ storehouse, and at the temple as an ordinance worker and cleaning supervisor. I felt that I had reached the pinnacle of forgiveness for every sin I remembered and had repented of, when my husband was called as bishop of the newly organized Sherwood Park second ward. In 2002 after my husband’s retirement, we applied to serve a senior couples mission, and were called to serve in the South Africa Cape Town Mission, arriving on April 6th. The very next day we were involved in an accident as passengers in the mission owned vehicle and were badly injured. We stayed and worked as missionaries instead of going through proper recovery and I still have physical problems because of this.
After arriving home from the mission in October 2003, I continued to be concerned about my friends in South Africa, some of whom were living under the harshest conditions. In 2005, once again accompanied by my hard working husband, I returned to the township in which we had previously served, equipped with some money and fabric donated mostly by good LDS friends. There we started a micro credit company to help people set up small businesses, enabling them to support their families. We worked in this new capacity for 6 months, returning home in March 2006.
That was a painful year in my life. Our second eldest son left the Church and I was left trying to sort out the cognitive dissonance taking place in my mind regarding the Church’s lack of help towards us when we were involved in the mission accident. I also wondered why there was a lack of financial resources being offered to hungry and ill African members of the Church, while members in wealthier countries seemed to have financial aid readily available along with access to bishops’ storehouses. When I came across the hateful expressions found in the Journal of Discourses towards those beloved African people (words that I had never before heard or read) I was devastated, having bought into the ‘doctrine’ that it had been God’s commandment that black men not be allowed to hold the priesthood until June 1978.
I prayed, begged, sobbed, had a blessing, attended the temple, read my scriptures and found myself right back in the position I had been in when the missionaries first taught me that the Mormon Church was the only true church on the face of the earth. I needed confirmation; I didn’t just want it to be true, I needed it to be so. How could I admit that I had been wrong all those years? How would I tell my husband and children that my doubts and questions remained unanswered? Merely considering leaving the church caused recurring suicidal feelings; I could not face the consequences of my growing disbelief. When I was ready to face my fears and stand up for truth, I made the break from the Church and within months resigned my membership.
I am happy with who I have become today. I love people, science, nature and the beautiful new world that has opened up to me. I still love my family and new friends so much. Actually, I still love the old friends deeply, but we have very little in common since I left the church.
My love for Africa has dominated my life since 2002 and now I am a member of the Stephen Lewis Foundation Grandmothers to Grandmothers Campaign; raising awareness and funds to help grandmothers like me who are collectively caring for 14 million AIDS orphaned grandchildren. I feel like I am giving back to the world all the love and beauty that it has given me.
My name is Jean Bodie and I’m an Ex Mormon.
To learn more about the “Grandmothers to Grandmothers Campaign” click here.
Jean has also been involved in raising awareness about temple weddings and the problems caused when family members are distanced from their loved ones during this important time in their lives:
Sign the Temple Wedding Petition
Some links that Jean recommends about her journey out of the LDS faith:
ExMormon Foundation
The Mormon Curtain
Mormon Think
Mormon ebooks on the Open Library
Jean has also been involved in reviewing and helping edit Jim Whitefields books “The Mormon Delusion” Volumes 1-3. She is working on proof reading his 4th book currently, which will be released next year. You can visit Jim Whitefields website below:
http://themormondelusion.com
Beautiful story Jean, thanks for sharing and for your example of integrity and courage!
I began a similar journey when I was 26 years old. I can’t imagine how much more courage it took to reevaluate your beliefs after so many years of investment in the church. You have one more admirer in me. Peace be with you.
Awesome! I wish I had your courage. Although I too had a similar journey out, mine was severely complicated by other factors that make such openness very difficult because it is not only my story but that of my children. I have one child out of the church and several children deeply TBM. I love what you’ve done with your story and appreciate your sharing it with us all.
Thank you for sharing your story. I can see myself in so much of what you say.
Gee……what is she going to do when she finds out the church she goes to now has racist past, and that she embraced a gospel that does’nt follow the teachings of Jesus in the Bible….we belong to the church of jesus , not any man….
@ Randy, this is Jean. Don’t understand your comment. I don’t go to any church now. I’m free.
Free from what? Now are you trying to recruit others to your beliefs? I don’t understand you telling your story and then encouraging others to follow. did I miss something in your story? You chose not to believe in the church because you were not helped after a car accident– so you should have gone home, nobody forced you to stay. Glad you are helping others in Africa– we do the same, the church will help where help is needed but we are a group of self reliant folks, they can figure out a way and should– if they asked the church, the church tells us all the same– do all that you can do then there will be help and I promise they will be helped.
Anyway happy for you, glad you feel free– I feel free too and I am an active member.
I think she means free meaning “open-minded”. Where is she trying to “recruit others to her beliefs”? Or “encourage others to follow”? And even if she was doing so, how would that differ from standard LDS missionary work?
I, too, was the only one in my family to leave initially, like your son. My immediate family largely stopped practicing in the following years. It continues to be hard for my dad, who lives in a predominantly mormon area, so he attends services from time to time for the friendships.
I’m trying to figure out Randy’s comment as well. He’s posted on others with confusing posts, too. The LDS church has a well-documented history of racism, including denying blacks the priesthood until 1975… 1975.. The year I was born.. that blows my mind… And, of course, their continued persecution of gays and lesbians. I know of know bible following religion that doesn’t practice or have a solid history of persecution of minorities. I know of none that doesn’t still practice considerable sexism.
Thank you for your wonderful video! You seem like someone I’d love to be friends with! I hope you continue to smile!!!
@ Mara; be my friend please, I’m on FB are you?
I am currently studying with the Mormons in Gonubie South Africa.
They seem so genuinely concerned for my soul… time and study will tell.
Lance,
The attention from the missionaries can be very inviting and welcomed. Just don’t let those feelings get confused with them necessarily having the truth. Jean actually served a mission to South Africa several years ago. Hopefully she gets on here and comments to a fellow South African. Good luck in your study and journey.
MikeUtah
keep studying– you will be aligned with good people
Lance, those missionaries do care for your soul; they are good people. Unfortunately the gospel they preach does not care for your soul and they don’t know it. Many have been raised to believe it. It is a fact that the majority of people do not change the religious beliefs they were raised with. In the Mormon Church we were discouraged from reading anything the leaders deemed ‘anti-mormon’ when in actual fact it is just pro-truth; a truth they don’t want us to know. Those are some of the things I discovered when my son left the church. Most of the damning truths came from their own older publications and Mormon Church Historians writings. The Journal of Discourses for instances.
I have been to East London by the way – beautiful place. Went to a wedding in Mdantsane as well.
Do your own research Lance and do not rely on emotional experiences; the missionaries are told to provide you with those. Rational thinking and emotions are good, but emotions are not the way to determine what is true.
Of the twenty countries providing the highest growth for the Mormon Church in 2009, ten were in Africa and five were in the Caribbean. The Mormon Church, in terms of overall claimable membership numbers, is slowly grinding to a halt. Then it will begin its inevitable decline. Nevertheless, many Mormons still believe the myth that their Church is the fastest growing Church in the world and to date, whilst the Church itself has never actually claimed this, it has also done little of anything to correct the perception and many missionaries still seem inclined to teach their investigators that it is.
When ‘investigators’ do their own research they can find the truth. If the truth is not readily available; little to no internet access or pro-truth books, the missionary work is successful (for them, not the unfortunate investigators) but where people have access to the truth the numbers are rapidly declining. The purpose of these videos is to show that we too were blinded to the truth by accident of birth or NOT doing our own research; being led along by our love for those dear and sincere young missionaries.
I am a convert, of over 38 years, the church does claim huge growth, each conference the numbers are shared– I think you might be a littled blinded by your own foggy brain– sorry– you need to do your research
And really why bother– since you are free! you are not doing a service to others in this– just go and do your work with Africa– encourage others to do the same and stop wasting your time on your “freedom”
Some number crunching from this Conference’s numbers:
Converts baptized: 272,814 (reported)
+ Children on record: 120,528 (reported)
—————————————————-
Total new people: 393,342
Total new people: 393,342
- Net increase: 306,583 (reported)
———————————————————
Total admitted loss: 86,759
Statistically expected deaths: 112,420 (assuming CDC death rate and 14M people)
(CDC expects 803 US deaths per 100,000)
Expected: 112,000
Admitted: 87,000
This means we’d expect to lose 112,000 members to death alone, not to mention people who resigned, joined other churches, or kids who went on the roles but never got baptized. YET, the Church only admits to losing 87,000 members.
If you ask me, they have just been caught red-handed lying from the Conference pulpit for the sole purpose of making themselves look better.
Um Diane, the admin of this group does not work in Africa or for Africa to my knowledge so I think it was me you should have been addressing. The admin is the one who posted the stats, not me; the person in the video. I spent an afternoon making it and went right back to work.
I didn’t know those stats until someone suggested I check them out and I find it very interesting and I’m not sure why you have to attack the admin for posting something this blatantly dishonest about statistics. Are you feeling a little threatened? I understand if you are and people like you are the ones these videos are made for. Truth is truth; do you want the truth or that which keeps you feeling comfortable and unthreatened?
Jean, It almost feels as if you are the one of the lost sheep described in Luke Chapter 15. It is however your free agency whether or not to leave the Church. Please do not become a Korihor, and lead away others from this church let them figure it out for themselves whether it is the peace that they are looking for, please do not lead them away… “….I once was lost but now am found, Was blind, but now I see….” Please pray for guidance, I can Testify to you that God and the Saviour love you and want you to join the flock again.
Adam, I’m not sure why you feel the need to call people to repentance, when that is not your “calling”. I hope one day that you will understand why these videos are important and needed.
Much love Jean. <3<3
repent of what? she is free–
Adam, your vain attempt to censor Jean in speaking to whomever and wherever she can about her experiences tells a lot about you. Your post tells me you think that:
a. the right of expression should be limited to only those in agreement with the
world view you subscribe to, e.g. it’s okay for your church to have a vast world-
wide missionary program, but Jean has no right to counter, what she considers
to be, the lies and misinformation your church disseminates,
b. you discount/disrespect the capacity of others (Jean, myself and tens of
thousands of others who have left the confines of religiosity) to be spiritually-
guided people, i.e. asserting we are, “lost” and “blind” etc..
This is the very type of mind-numbing arrogance that Jean is probably making a valiant (successful) effort to fight against.
As I recently said to TBM members of my own family, “why must I be subject to the censor, put-downs and ‘black-sleep’ innuendoes because I’m not willing to, “hear-no-truth” “speak-no-truth” “see-no-truth” which seem to be the mantra of my dear, blind and delusional siblings and most of their families who insist that ‘faith’ somehow gives you all a free pass from having to defend yourself in the court of rational understanding and dialogue! As you, they want us ‘faithless’ to hush up!
My own experience over seventy years has been that family and other TMB’s prey and pity over we who don’t share in your indefensible religious delusions. In my own family, it’s a family joke (almost) about how TBM’s seem to make it their ‘calling’ to bring we wayward ‘sheep’ back into the fold.
Thank you very much but we’re happily in the fold of the human family, for all the ups, downs and occasional warts. I am embarrassed and upset that some, who claim they love and want a close familial connection, ALWAYS pick the family-dividing doctrines of, what I consider to be, a radical religious sect over family. You know nothing else, you talk of nothing else, you socialize nowhere else, so is it any wonder that we family ‘outsiders’ accept the futility of feeling like we are really family. “Family first” doesn’t mean family first after church first.
I think I understand why you must dismiss anything – including Church-approved historical documents that don’t appear to agree with your world view – as some kind of a “rant” that must be silenced. As one author so eloquently said,”faith may be defined as the power invested in beliefs, but, more precisely, the power invested in unquestioned beliefs. The strength of faith consists in its not being questioned, challenged or doubted. Once it is put in doubt, faith weakens. Hence, the beliefs associated with faith must remain unquestioned for faith to stand.”
Wow. I love that last quote you gave!
I love your name too! I am the creator of this video series and my name is Dan Johnson too
Dan,
Thanks! It is a great quote and something that, I think, should be sent to every TBM out there. Maybe, just maybe it may give the ‘pause” to reflect….
Dan
Boo Hoo– your Religious psyco-balonia was very enlightening, and I’ve heard it a million time before– who cares– if you haven’t get your name off the records, Sorry your family love you and picks the wrong things to say to you– steer away from them and anyone who has beliefs and faith and maybe your life will be all that you hoped for.
So like the faithful to be Testifying about things that are absolutely unverifiable
‘Please pray for guidance, I can Testify to you that God and the Saviour love you and want you to join the flock again.’
If you are wondering why many claim the LDS church is a cult or cultish, try viewing the practice of being encouraged to testify and thus prompting others to build their faith and testimonies on such word-of-mouth stories, notions, experiences, and beliefs from an outsider’s lens.
I AM a Korihor.
And this Anti-Christ, whose name was Korihor, (and the law could have no hold upon him; “because they had free speech”) began to preach unto the people that there should be no Christ. And after this manner did he preach, saying:
Behold, these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers.
How do ye know of their surety? Behold, ye cannot know of things which ye do not see; therefore ye cannot know that there shall be a Christ.
Ye look forward and say that ye see a remission of your sins. But behold, it is the effect of a frenzied mind; and this derangement of your minds comes because of the traditions of your fathers, which lead you away into a belief of things which are not so.
Now the high priest’s name was Giddonah. And Korihor said unto him: Because I do not teach the foolish traditions of your fathers, and because I do not teach this people to bind themselves down under the foolish ordinances and performances which are laid down by ancient priests, to usurp power and authority over them, to keep them in ignorance, that they may not lift up their heads, but be brought down according to thy words.
Ye say that this people is a free people. Behold, I say they are in bondage. Ye say that those ancient prophecies are true. Behold, I say that ye do not know that they are true.
Ye say that this people is a guilty and a fallen people, because of the transgression of a parent. Behold, I say that a child is not guilty because of its parents.
“And I say, I completely agree with Korihor who was actually a figment of Joseph Smith and his cohorts’ imaginations. They came up with this sensible dialogue not me. Then because he had success in converting many people, they shut him up. That is what you would do with those of us who agree with Korihor. Free speech is vital to the growth of your church Adam; then please extend it to all. The LDS Church is constantly re-writing history and I cannot live with that kind of dishonesty, so I left it. Why can’t I share my knowledge just as the missionaries get to share what they have been taught to believe through the vain traditions of their fathers? Because YOU have a testimony? No that doesn’t work; strike me dumb; use your priesthood power like Alma did. Have you ever wondered why the chief judge ‘wrote’ his questions to the dumb Korihor? He was dumb not blind.
Beautiful story, Jean! Congratulations on breaking free from the brain washing! The world is a very beautiful place and I’m proud to be both IN it and OF it!
The only ones brain washed are the dough heads who believe this lady– go forth and try to prosper….you won’t
Adam, it also states in the New Testament not to teach another Gospel. Joseph Smith taught and Mormon Leaders teach a different Gospel than the very simply Gospel that Rabbi Yeshua ben Yosef (Jesus of Nazareth) taught. That is to love God and to Love your neighbor as yourself. This is the essence of the Law. Nothing else is needed.
Jean, thank you for your words. It is wonderful to listen to people who have opened their eyes.
Jean what an amazing story not only of courage to be who you are, but of true devotion to motherhood. To loving your child enough to honor his him and to listen to him even when it was difficult. To be humble enough to acknowlege that he may actually see something that we as the “wiser” parents were not seeing. You inspire me lady. And you accent ….well…it is just icing on the cake now isn’t it.
I believe emotions are like a 6th sense when you are pondering what is true and what isn’t, and that yes, in fact, they should play a huge part in whether you decide to believe or not. If you don’t listen to your heart than what’s the point of religion?
Would you trust feelings alone on whether to buy a particular car or not? Feelings are emotions and are rarely based in rationality, reason and logic, and can thus be very misleading, such as getting involved with a person intimately even when your higher brain function and logic told you not to. Feelings may be a good hunch of what to look into further, but they should almost always be followed up with due research and study. Even the D&C supports this model of studying it out in your heard AND mind. Just throwing that out there for anyone to consider when contemplating the use of feelings to decipher truth.
MikeUtah
Well getting involved intimately with a person where you shouldn’t be is sure to give you a bad feeling though, isn’t it? It’s just that Jean implied that she was being decieved by her emotions.
Jean – Thank you for sharing your story!
Danielle – I agree. “If you don’t listen to your heart than what’s the point of religion?”
I did listen to my heart and my sense of reason. I did pray for guidance, I did have a blessing, I did attend the temple. There were no answers – but now my life is full of questions and answers. I listened to my heart and now I share my beliefs.
When I heard about the umpteen versions of the so called first vision, i was distraught; I had left my former faith based on that ‘truth’ that god had spoken to this innocent young boy named Joseph Smith. Well that was 4 years ago and now after searching through a massive pile of books on many topics; many church history books, and re-reading the Book of Mormon, watching the film about the Lost Book of Abraham on Youtube and then reading the book. All those nasty sermons that Brigham Young preached, I now know why over the years I occasionally had to suspend judgment on some things that bothered me.
http://www.themormondelusion.com/page_1232378837093.html
Human beings are very prone to delusions and we tend to protect those delusions quite fiercely; afraid that we might lose something precious. I discovered that it was not precious; just delusional. Thank you all for your kind comments.
Ok really?!?! So are you telling me that you left the mormon church because you neglected to get medical attention after a car accident? Are you telling me that you left the mormon church because you blindly believed in a youtube video? Are you telling me that you left the mormon church because you didn’t “feel the Spirit” the same way as Oliver Cowdery? Or that you had a sore leg from kneeling a long time? Are you telling me that you left a religion that you practiced for 39 years because there are poor people in the world? Really?! Seems a bit rash and silly to me.
Also Jean, way to go off on Adam… I mean, all he did was usurp his free speech to show what he believed was compassion and you totally shot him down and put words into his mouth (or in this case thought maybe everyone else couldnt see plainly written exactly what adam had said…) chill out. not everyone is out to get you! And who the hell would be proud to call themselves an anti-Chrsit? WHAT?!
You are so proud to call yourself an ex-Mormon, an Anti-Christ, yet a follower of Christ and his teachings… of all those things that bothered you about the Mormon religion, werent some of them an appearance of prejudice to black people. Did you notice how in the Bible Christ did not teach to the gentiles? He showed kindness to them but did not let them join His church or be among His crowd while He was living. He gave instruction that there would be a time and place for spreading the gospel to the gentiles but it did not happen until Paul became the head of Christ’s church in prophesying to the gentiles. Does this mean that Paul was wrong to teach the gentiles? No. because Christ gave him instruction to do so in Christ’s own due time… right? Well in regards to these concerns about blacks not having the priesthood, is it possible that Christ was keeping an eye out and waiting for His right time? Does he not speak of living within the bounds of the law? I feel there is a lot of hypocrisy in the beliefs you now profess vs. the concerns you said you had. I feel there are flaws in your so called logic. It simply leaves me flabbergasted.
No I’m not telling you what to believe or what church to join. Mormons, Catholics, Evangelical, Protestants, Non-demoninational, Agnostic, or just plain whatever… but please try to be consistant…
I’ve got this one for ya Jean
First off, I would like to welcome you to our site! I sincerely hope that viewing these videos will help you to understand us “Ex Mormons”.
You listed off a few things that began with an “Ok really?!?!” and I think it is important to address the tone of your comment first- how do you think it will be received? Is your goal to make a positive difference in our lives? It seems you were very critical of Jean’s tone in her comment is why I ask. I try to be considerate of people when addressing them, especially online when it is difficult to get a true understanding of someone through text. So back to your list of things you said were rash and silly reasons for leaving the church.
-neglect from the church in a car accident
I agree. Not a good reason to leave. I think Jean would agree as well. In fact she stayed in the church long after the accident. Of course It was shocking for her to realize that the missionaries were not divinely protected as she had supposed, but not a reason to leave the church.
-blindly believed a youtube video
When you put it that way, yes it seems quite rash and silly to leave over blindly following a youtube video. But when you take into consideration that she wanted the church to be true and that she did everything she could to make the facts go away- reading many many books, fasting and praying etc. I think using the term “blindly” is a way to discredit her research, prayers, tears and heartache.
-she didn’t “feel the Spirit” the same way as Oliver Cowdery
That is correct, she didn’t get an answer to her prayers and questions. This could be considered a good reason to leave an organization that claims you can get answers to your prayers if you have enough faith. This teaching of course can in turn be used as a weapon against everyone who leaves without receiving an answer: they simply didn’t have enough faith. Another words they weren’t honest enough, sincere enough or good enough. But I’m sure Jean began to open herself up to the terrifying question: “What if I’m not receiving an answer because it isn’t true? What if there is no God to answer and it is all in our heads?”
-you had a sore leg from kneeling a long time
Well, this is actually why she JOINED the church, not why she left. She just has a new perspective on this experience and has realized that a pain in your leg does not lead to the conclusion that the Mormon church is the one true church on the earth. And I am guessing we can both agree with the conclusion she came to regarding that experience.
-because there are poor people in the world
She definitely noticed that these people needed help more than we did, and that the organization she expected to be helping wasn’t helping. Again, this isn’t something that proves the church untrue, but I hope you can understand that naturally there were some questions that arose from witnessing this first hand.
-appearance of prejudice to black people
Yes, this is another one of those things that brings up questions but doesn’t mean the church is not true. You give a good example of how many members compare the church’s treatment of blacks and Christ’s treatment of the gentiles in the Bible. Personally I would condemn both circumstances. I suspect Jean would too, as she is no longer religious.
You mention that Jean has a lot of hypocrisy in her beliefs vs her concerns. I didn’t read anywhere that she says she believes in Christ. And I didn’t read anywhere that stated this was a comprehensive list of all her concerns. She could write volumes of books detailing her concerns, but she focused on the main issues that made her think twice, which lead her on a journey of discovery. Many of her discoveries are not mentioned here. If you head over to http://www.mormonthink.com you can find many of the issues presented with both sides of the arguments. But I think it would be hard to label Jean as a hypocrite when
1. You misunderstood her beliefs as being christian
2.You have no idea what all of her issues were when she made the decision to leave the church.
I don’t want to come off as condescending, but if you believe yourself to be an honorable Christian, I hope you would consider a sincere apology for calling her a hypocrite.
She is a sweet lady that I love dearly, and perhaps her comments come across as harsh at times, but I think most people could say the same about you.
Admin. I misunderstood. I thought she was Christian and simply did not understand the fallacies with her arguments (using the basis that she was a Christian and believed the Bible to be true). So I chose a poor example. I still do not understand how she chose to leave her church based on some of those arguments she chose to note, but I do rescind my Bible based references since she is not Christian and has chosen to part her belief in the Bible as well. I can see at least that part of her argument as consistent now.
Yada Yada Yada– ok I got my fill of the Ex- Mormons– boring, dull and long winded– couldn’t, wouldn’t, didn’t read all the crap above– bye and have a good life.
No, she is not telling you she left the church b/c she didn’t get medical care, or any of the other accusations you’re throwing around. It seems you’re misreading Jean’s words in order to compensate for the cognitive dissonance you’re probably feeling. That could be why you seem so angry. I used to get angry when ex-mormons spoke out, too. It felt very threatening to me, though i didn’t understand why at the time. I think i honestly would’ve fought to the death to defend the mormon church. Then the church funded prop 8. And the did so very deceptively and deviously. That one deception was enough to allow me to question all the other things about the church that just didn’t seem right (but that i wasn’t allowed to research). That led me to finally finding out about the Book of Abraham…a 100% fraudulently made-up work of fiction by Joseph Smith which, when actually translated by an Egyptologist, turned out to be the Book of Breathings (and NOTHING to do with Abraham, or Kolob, or anything JS claimed it was about). When i read the church’s response to the book being proven false, i knew beyond any shadow of a doubt that we’d all had the wool pulled over our eyes. And it hurt. And it was embarrassing. Humiliating, even, that i had bought it all, hook, line and sinker. I’ve spent the past year reading NOT anti-mormon literature, but literature approved by the LDS church (Journal of Discourses, Joseph Smith-Rough Stone Rolling, among others) and it only helps confirm it was all a fraud. I, like you, used to be so sure of myself, so sure of that church. I based my “faith” on lies, and on emotion and on a desire for it to all be true. But facts are facts, and to ignore them would be to ignore my own existence. I understand your strong reaction. I really do. You have every right to choose to continue to believe that church is true. You have every right to believe whatever you want. Your anger shows your inner turmoil, which is most likely unconscious. I just want to let you know that if you do one day decide to *really* find out if it’s all true, you have the right to do that, to find the facts, to find the truth, even though you’ve been taught not to question. I wish you peace.
What has led you to believe that this Egyptologist is honest and is giving you a true translation? I mean, did you look into his/her life and references and other works or did you simply believe that it happened? If you did research them, meet them, and all of that… ok. If not, isn’t that the same thing as simply believing Joseph? Were these not the faults people have associated with Josephs translation? This is not to say that an Eqyptoligist out there did not translate what they believed to be the same thing as the Book of Abraham and found it to be different, but what makes you believe in them?
Also, I have done a lot of research. I am not a very emotional person. I am a very fact based logical person. I simply find the Mormon church to be very logical in their argumentation and consistent as long as one believes in God, Jesus Christ, and continued revelation. If you chose not to believe in any of these, I can see where questions would arise, but I believe whole-heartedly in these three things and that basis of belief has led me to respect and join the Mormon church. I find no fault with them using this basis.
There is no respected Egyptologist outside of Mormonism who believes the so called Book of Abraham has any connection at all to Abraham. It came much later than Abraham, the pictures that go along with the text are completely wrong in their interpretation. They are many other pictures with hieroglyphs and pictures such as this and they are all pretty much the same. They are funery documents. Read what other Egyptologists have to say. They all say that the Book of Abraham is completely wrong.
What kind of truth do you want to hear? That which comes from respected scholars or that which confirms what you want to continue to believe?
http://www.bookofabraham.info/Bios.htm
“There is no respected Egyptologist oustide of Mormonism who believes the book of Abraham has any connection at all to Abraham” ….This is because all of the respected Egyptologists who read the Book of Abraham and DO believe the book has connection to Abraham… well, they convert to the faith.
I am going to look out for you in the next life…………………I wonder what story you will tell then!!
I would be happy to find that there is an afterlife- especially one that has an omnipotent loving father in charge of everything!
I would hope that he would be able to answer all my questions such as:
“Where did I go wrong in my reasoning?”
“Why are there so many contradictions in the teachings of your prophets?” (assuming God is the LDS version)
And if I am to be punished or receive a lesser degree of glory for my honest approach in seeking truth, I would ask:
“How are you justified in doing this to me when the evidence lead me away from the church?”
I would feel comfort of course, knowing that the Mormon version of God is supposed to be loving and just. Therefore I can not possibly see how this being would be anything but proud of me for my choices. I hope there is a chance we will meet in the next life Amanda, even though I have found no reason to believe in anything supernatural. But a nice thought must not be considered truth unless evidence is provided.
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” -Carl Sagan
Admin, We all must choose and that is the point of life… making choices and learning.
Here’s how I figure it… there are two choices,
1. believe in God
2. Do not believe in God.
There are two outcomes.
1. God exists. or
2. God does not exist.
Right?
I figure if I am going to err.. I would rather
*believe in God and die and find out there is no afterlife and God does not exist,
than
*not believe in God and die and find out that God exists and I must live with my unbelief for eternity.
Ya know? Its the old better safe than sorry adage.
Teri A,
My son recently sent me an email with the comment that of all the churches out there, the L.D.S. church is the most, “internally consistent.” I’ve asked him what he means by that, but assume it relates to things like, not baptizing infants and having a plan of salvation for all people, regardless of whether or not they hear of Jesus before they die, etc..
I share this with you because I’m interested in learning if this might be part of the reason( why you’ve made the logical and rational choice to embrace Mormonism over any other “ism” in your decision to be, “safe than sorry…”
Just how well have you, “searched all things” (as Brigham Young said – I think) to confirm that there’s even a need to believe in a interventionist-type God such as the Abrahamic Religions represent?
As I quoted in a blog above, these religions stand only on the basis of, “unquestioned beliefs.”
“The strength of faith consists in its not being questioned, challenged or doubted.”
“Once it is put in doubt, faith weakens.”
“Hence, the beliefs associated with faith must remain unquestioned for faith to stand.”
Is that where you stand?
Dan,
I have to say that I resent that quote on faith. That is not at all close to the faith and the definition of faith that Mormons, including myself, believe in. Faith is not blind; it is not weak; and, as well, it is not unquestioned. Rather, it’s following a principle that we believe in and hope to be true but don’t yet know to be true. Faith is action on what we’ve been taught and would like to test out.
Every Mormon has his/her doubts, just like every member of every religion will have doubts as that’s part of human nature. Where faith meets doubts is when we act on the principles we’ve been taught and then see the fruit of those principles when they are applied in our lives. Those actions and their fruits will either confirm or relieve our doubts. This is when faith then becomes KNOWLEDGE.
That is where I am at. I have questioned the Mormon church; I have questioned the doctrines. I then took Faith, as I believed the doctrines to be true, and I acted- I applied the principles in my life and I prayed about the doctrines. As I applied them, I saw fruits, beautiful fruits, and my faith became a knowledge. I know that Jesus Christ is the Savior of mankind and that he leads this church. Not because I’ve been taught that, but because I’ve lived it and came to that knowledge by my own experiences and my own life. That is faith.
PLEASE don’t assume that everyone that is in this church is blindly following it’s leaders; that they are unquestioning. That is my biggest pet-peve. I have a brain, I use it, I question and I study, but the more I do the more I come to know that it’s true.
-Kevin
My friend Alex made a comment that I would like to quote here because I loved the way he put it and I think it is relevant:
“Mormons like to point to this and Alma’s phrase, “experiment upon the word,” as if it is being thoughtful and logical. However, this is very different from a scientific experiment, i.e. a real experiment, in that there is no power to falsify. Hence the experiment tells us absolutely nothing about what it is supposed to test. This is training for creating a kind of trance or suggestive psychological state like hypnosis, not an experiment.”
Danielle, MikeUtah said:
“such as getting involved with a person intimately even when your higher brain function and logic told you not to.”
You said:
“Well getting involved intimately with a person ‘where you shouldn’t be is sure to give you a bad feeling though’, isn’t it?”
He didn’t say getting involved ‘where you shouldn’t be’; he said when your higher brain function and logic told you not to. Rather like ignoring the warning voice that tells you ‘this saleswoman is using sales tactics; don’t buy this vacuum cleaner’. But you like the vacuum cleaner salesperson so you buy anyhow; don’t want to hurt her feelings.
That is ignoring a warning voice and taking the offer that says you must sign the contract today or you won’t get it at this fabulous price.
What does a person need to do in those circumstances? If she actually needs a vacuum cleaner – go and do some more research. Look into what the other companies have to offer. What do the experts say? Or consumer affairs? Just believing the saleswoman because she is nice will lead to buying the vacuum cleaner.
This is an actual personal experience. I had a major vacuum cleaner rep. come to demonstrate her company’s super duper vacuum cleaner. She asked me to vacuum thoroughly with my old cleaner just in one spot on a rug. I did a really good job. Then she put a black cloth over the hose of her special vacuum cleaner and proceeded to clean the same spot. I was truly amazed at how much she was able to pick up with the wonder machine. I liked her but the cost was prohibitive so I had to decline; sadly, because now I was even more dissatisfied with my own cleaner. Before that, I just ‘felt’ that my Dirt Devil being so cheap could not possibly have been doing a good job; now I ‘knew’ that it was far inferior and I needed a new one that I could not afford.
When the now huffy saleswoman was gone, I was about to get rid of her black cloth that she had left for me to dispose and I had this thought; a logical one, not based on liking her but one with purpose. I shook out the cloth and put it over the metal hose on my inferior Dirt Devil and re-vacuumed the part that I had done and the great saleswoman had done – guess what? I picked up loads more sand and fluff that looked exactly like the residue that she had lifted with her special model. I didn’t need a big expensive new vacuum cleaner after all because my little Dirt Devil had picked up what the special machine missed.
The parable here should be obvious. When missionaries knocked on my door, I had been previously prepared to believe that I needed more religion in my life; I was a member of the Church of England and had recently come back into contact with it for reasons that I won’t go into now in order to keep this post from becoming a book. The missionaries confirmed that I did indeed need religion but not the one that was a ‘daughter of the whore of all the earth’ defined as the Catholic Church. They showed me the need and gave me their sales pitch. They were so sweet; so nice to be around – I loved them. The rest is in my story. I needed it – I thought. It looked good and I felt that it was true, when in fact it offered me no more than the C of E.
They said that they were offering eternal life WITH my family; it sounded wonderful, but years after they left and after my mission, I actually looked at the evidence. I figuratively put the black cloth over the hose and tested it – it failed the test over and over and over; I could always pick up more evidence that no vacuum cleaner would ever do the job and no church would ever do a con job on me again. Feelings may be a guide; not evidence of truth; study things out not just in your mind which can lead you astray, but objectively.
Some people may not remember Paul H. Dunn GA of the Church whose stories motivated not just me but most church members. His words were persuasive and one could not fail to believe that one was feeling the spirit. What did we do when we discovered that he was actually inventing those stories? The church ‘demoted’ him and we all said ‘good, he was deceiving us – that is so wrong’ then we continued on – believing the next guy and the next.
I was deceived by my emotions for 39 years.
This is a great analogy Jean. I too have a plethora of stories where I formerly ‘felt the spirit’ or felt convinced of the truthfulness of the gospel. It is easy, now that I know more about how psychology works and what motivates our brains, to make sense of those feelings and desires which led to my actions as a believer in the church.
For those ready to seriously question their testimony, I think more than any study of the history of the church or engaging in debate of the truth of the church’s claims, the best place to start to search for information on what is happening within ourselves (and why), -especially our minds.
I have been reading ‘Mistakes were Made (but not by me)’ and found it very useful and full of scholarly examples of the science of belief.
Love your story, it gives me hope for my Mom!
Thanks for sharing your beautiful story, Jean. You are so brave to do so especially when you have a believing spouse. It’s really hard journey out of religion. Being able to think for oneself is the most amazing gift and experience. Jean has inspired me to be the best person I can be. To truly look at the world and its problems and really get out there and try to help. She does exactly that and also takes in all that is beautiful about the world too. All she is doing is sharing her own experience and her own story. Everyone should be free to do that.
I am a member of the mormon church (lds), and I am very happy with my life and the blessings that the principles of this church brings to me.
I have lived away from home (abroad) for quite some time, and have felt really welcome by my ward, the church members, they are very good to me and my husband and children.
I am French Moroccan, and I never have felt people did not like me at all, on the contrary. I too have many friends who are from African and Jamaican background and they are well loved by the church members.
I too know many members who are wealthy and do a lot of charity work for Africa…. My experiences are very different from yours Jean.
I was saddened to hear your story, but I think a testimony is not based on people, it is what you gain between you and the saviour. Of course it helps when people from the same faith as yours are kind, but not everybody is perfect or at the same level, and yes, people even from my faith may let us down sometimes, but honey, what matters is your relationship with this wonderful saviour you know and who knows you.
I know that this church is the church that Jesus Christ had organized while he was on this earth with prophets and apostles and that is all that matters to me. I know that he will come back again to this earth.
Blimey Teri, the tone you used in talking to Jean was frankly despicable, even more so for a woman claiming to be a Christian. You criticized her for ‘going off’ at Adam and then proceeded to do the very same thing. The Lord was very clear in his views on hypocrisy. Telling Jean to ‘chill out’ was just disrespectful and I’m quite alarmed by your anger. You believe in Christ, Jean doesn’t, which is her right as a human being. You might want to re-read the 11th Article of Faith, and ask yourself if you adhere to it’s principle. Why is it ok for YOU to go about the world actively preaching and promoting your chosen religion, but when people share their beliefs, however different than yours, they are shot down and accused of being an anti-Christ? I wonder how the Saviour would have responded to Jean’s video? Gently, with soft, tender words or harshly, with undertones of mockery.
As for the questions you asked Jean regarding her learning the truth and leaving the Church, I don’t believe Jean left because of any ONE of those reasons. However, when put together, those reasons were enough to cause Jean to doubt and seek out the ‘real’ church history. If Jean listed everything she has learned through study, fasting and prayer, it would be a book of many volumes.
Jean is a beautiful, wise, brave, intelligent lady, who has suffered personal heartbreak because of her commitment to her beliefs. Her integrity and honesty are admirable. More than this though, Jean loves people, and as a humanist has taken upon herself to fight poverty, injustice and prejudice.
You are entitled to your opinions. All I ask is that you air them in a way that doesn’t include personal attack.
I wish you well.
Thank you for your comments.. I did not realize that Jean was not a Christian.. I simply thought she was by reading her comments and noted the fallacies in her arguments (this was all assuming she was Christian and believed in the bible.)
I also would like to point out that I too never claimed to be a Christian. ( I DO believe in Christ as the Savior, but just wanted to note that you did the same thing to me.)
I would also like to note that Jean is the one who called her self an Anti-Christ and I merely wondered why one would be happy to call themselves that.
God speed Kate.
Teri A, Jesus didn’t start a church. He started a movement. Paul started a church in his name and changed what he had to say. If you look at what can be attributable just to what Jesus said, you’ll see that Paul contradicts Jesus. And who should we listen to? The Jesus of the Gospels was anti establishment.
That doesn’t make any sense. Jesus called 12 apostles to continue His church and administer to it. I’m pretty sure having leaders and some organization would be referred to as an establishment. Christ turned to Peter and said “Upon this rock I build my church”. Yes, as He just said, Christ was building a church, and He gave it leaders to continue it after He left. He was not anti-establishment.
Teri A, If I might just address your comments about the Blacks and the Priesthood. I’ve heard the “It wasn’t the right time” argument a few times, even from Thurl Bailey, and it really bothers me that people buy into that elaborate lie.
First of all… Let us assume that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God. I personally don’t, but I suspect that you do. Joseph Smith ordained a black man to the priesthood by the name of Elijah Abel. Brother Abel actually went on to serve as member of the Seventy. If it wasn’t the right time, what reason might a true prophet of God have had for doing such a thing?
Joseph Smith had no issue with men of African descent receiving the priesthood.
Brigham Young did however, in fact Mr. Young was a racist of the highest order, believing that blacks should be slaves and the servants of mankind.
“You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable, sad, low in their habits, wild, ad seemingly without the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be and the Lord put a mark on him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then other curse is pronounced upon the same race – that they would be the “servant of servants;” and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree.”
I suspect you think Mr. Young was a true prophet as well.
I was raised by a faithful LDS man who believed the same as Brigham Young. In fact, no less than 4 years ago, he sat in my home expounding his perverted view of Mormonism, garnered from men like Brigham Young and Bruce R. McConkie that the blacks should even now, not be entitled to the priesthood, because of transgressions in a previous life.
Denying blacks the priesthood was based on racism, and from a desire which Brigham had to prevent black men from entering the temple and marrying white women. He also believed that a black man who entered a relationship with a white women should be killed immediately. It was part of his whole Blood Atonement doctrine, which unfortunately many still believe as well.
I would invite you cordially to investigate everything which I have presented here and verify their authenticity, and then please do us all a favor, and in future comment, try to resist bringing up illogical theories which you may have heard to justify past wrongs by your Church. Especially if you’re going to follow that with incorrect labeling of one of the most Christlike ladies I know as a hypocrite and as someone lacking in logic.
I do know that Brigham Young was a prophet of God.
I also believe there was a sense of honoring, obeying, and sustaining the law of the land. The law of the land at the time was slavery, and a general unacceptance of the blacks. there was no interracial mingling as part of the law. In an effort to uphold the law of the land, I have no doubt that blacks marrying whites was unacceptable even within the temple. While Brigham Young was a prophet of God, he was not a God… he was a man. Prone to faults. Perhaps one of his faults was an inbred sense of racism. He was looking at the doctors of the day who said that the black man’s brain was smaller and less intelligent than a white mans. He was simply stating the scientific ‘facts’ of the time.
While God is no respecter of persons, he also allows men to distinguish and discriminate. He placed a mark upon Cain so that others could easily recognize him. While I believe that was used back in the day, it is not a current practice. Different races are not cursed based on their skin color it is simply a result of lineage.
As to “the blacks should not now have the priesthood because of transgressions in a previous life” that is simply a false belief. In fact its just wrong. the worth of each soul is great in the sight of God. As to transgression in the previous life, thats silly. We ALL start fresh as babes, regardless of race, family, class.. whatever. Its a unique set of challenges, but not a punishment by any means.
Note a black man marrying a white woman being killed was a U.S. law. The Mormon are a law abiding people. so while the law was wrong and racist, it was a law none the less.
And my logic was simply based off of Bible history with Christ, not something I have simply heard. It just makes sense.
As to Elijah Abel. Finding a credible website to back what you have said is very difficult and I have not yet found a credible website to cite yet, but I will continue to look into this matter. Thank you for giving me a new piece of information to look into.
You say that the law of the land was slavery at the time, but the mormon church took it a bit furthur and “God Sanctioned” that slavery when others were trying to do the Christlike thing and abolish slavery. Brigham Young showed indifference and took it a step furthur by stating that the black man must just accept his lot in life to be inferior to everyone else. You would think that the RESTORED gospel of Christ would require living a higher law, that states that God is no respector of persons, all are equal in his sight. When I was growing up in another church we sang a song like that and I truly believed it, “red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight.” Withholding the “power to act in God’s name” from someone because of their race, while claiming to be the one true church restored upon the face of the earth is an oxymoron. Claiming that you are law abiding citizens, while banning an entire race from having ecclesiastical equality, but yet marrying other mens wives, young girls, and multiple wives, going ahead and setting up a bank without a sanctioned charter, and the list goes on, it is all an oxymoron. Claiming that the church is law abiding but destroying a printing press for publishing the lesser known secret of polygamy which was against the law is a contradiction. All very convenient excuses used to justify your beliefs. It is only in mormon scripture that it is known that the curse was black btw, how convenient.
The Elijah Abel stuff is all church based. There is a book through Desseret about him. There’s also a billion websites…this is not some “Anti-mormon” thing. You can look up more about him in wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah_Abel
Dear Teri A., it is estimated that there are more former-mormons (ex-mormons, lapsed mormons, post mormons…whatever term you want to use) on earth today than believing mormons, so of course there are many stories and reasons we have left. Just like one who chooses to join the church may have had an experience that sparked an interest in looking further into it, so it is with us.
Perhaps we felt that the way the church handles homosexuality is not consistent with love, or maybe it is the way the church chose to cover up how much money they contributed to Prop 8 in California (until they were caught and had to “confess”), or so many other reasons, but eventually it caused us to “look further into” the truth claims of Joseph and other leaders…and the results were shocking to most of us.
There is good, scientific evidence that the Book of Mormon was written by a few folks, not “translated by the gift and power of God.” There is good evidence that Joseph was a liar in so many senses of the word…particularly to his own loving and loyal wife, as he went about sleeping with many girls, and even other men’s wives. Would a prophet of God behave this way? Or is it much more likely he, as a narcissistic egomaniac, used his gained position of trust and power to get what he wanted? Just consider the possibility that he was in the same category as the Jim Jones’s, David Koresh’s, etc. — all who claimed to be speaking for God when they controlled and used unsuspecting people to accomplish their own selfish desires.
You mention consistency? I see consistency as a process where reality matches one’s proclaimed words. When one claims to believe Jesus teachings of unconditional love, then applies conditions — not consistent. When one claims to be family-oriented, then kicks family members out who are gay or lesbian — not consistent.
I just suggest you consider the possibility that your religion is in fact as immoral and inconsistent as any other religion that you fight against. Take the blinders off and recognize that religions have killed more people throughout history than any other reason — all claiming to do it because God told them to. Even your own allows killing (eg. Laban, etc) when God has “his purpose” Maybe “his purpose” is not really his…but a sick in the head, controlling and selfish…
MAN!
I’d be careful when you say that the church is kicking family members out because they are homosexual. No, that is not the church, rather that is the members. No church has perfect members; that’s why there is a church in the first place- to promote improvement in one’s life.
As for the church’s stance on homosexuality and, as you mention, unconditional love, we do love homosexual individuals and we accept them as equal human beings who deserve just as much respect as the next person, but we do not condone their homosexual actions just as we don’t condone drinking or adultery. That is a belief that we have the right to take, that homosexuality is wrong. And, with that belief, we still love homosexual individuals.
I am Mormon; I have homosexual friends; I respect the fact that they can choose how they would like to live their life; I don’t intend to control them but allow them to live their life as they please; I feel that their homosexual activity is wrong and I hope that they change, but I don’t cast them out or abandon them for it; in fact, it’s really not an issue at all in our friendship and to this day we still remain friends.
Teri A.
Not trying to be rude, but your comments struck me as nonsensical jiberish. They went in a complete circle, and it seemed almost as if you were somehow speaking to yourself. “Also Jean, way to go off on Adam… I mean, all he did was usurp his free speech to show what he believed was compassion and you totally shot him down and put words into his mouth…chill out”. Ummm, pot to kettle, pot to kettle, do you read me?.
You don’t have to agree with Jean, but you should have the decency to put off your entrenched tribalism long enough to realize what she and others like her have done takes courage. You should try it some day, it would do you some good.
I thought your pot to kettle comment was extremely funny. I actually laughed out loud at that.
I do understand that it takes courage to completely leave ones life behind in an effort to stand for your beliefs. I have found myself a minority many times in life… with regard to beliefs and race. It is not a new thing for me, so standing up for a different belief is something that I can relate to. So I definitely understand that it takes courage to do something like that. And I applaud her on her courage. I simply think it was a bit misdirected, thats all.
Jean,
I truly admire your poise and your courage. Even though I am an ex-mormon, I don’t think I could express the many ways my life has improved in such an elequent manner as you have done. Your testimony and other like yours make people like me proud that they had the strength to leave. Thank you.
I just want to clarify my position here on the race issue. I had at the time I read the words of Brigham Young and other church leaders, friends within my ward who were Caribbean, Asian, South American, North American and etc. I have had students on placement in my home from Japan, China and Saudi Arabia. I had a son-in-law from Asia and two children who are Canadian Aboriginals. I love these people, and never saw them as being inferior or in any way deserving of the kind of life that is described in the following quote.
We cannot escape the conclusion that because of performance in our pre-existence some of us are born as Chinese, some as Japanese, some as Latter-day Saints…. A Chinese, born in China with a dark skin, and with all the handicaps of that race seems to have little opportunity. But think of the mercy of God to Chinese people who are willing to accept the gospel. In spite of whatever they might have done in the pre-existence to justify being born over there as Chinamen, if they now, in this life accept the gospel and live it the rest of their lives they can have the Priesthood, go to the temple and receive endowments and sealings, and that means they can have exaltation. Isn’t the mercy of God marvelous? Think of the Negro, cursed as to the priesthood…. This negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to Earth in the lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa…. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory.”
LDS “Apostle” Mark E. Petersen, “Race Problems – As They Affect the Church,” Address delivered at Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, August 27, 1954.
I always believed that the church leaders did not take a racist position and when I read this it hurt my heart – how could I bear to hear my friends being spoken of this way? Those words have been retracted now, but it did demonstrate to me that this was about racism NOT giving priesthood power to black people because god said so.
I want to clarify also to anyone who might post here, I am an atheist now and when I said that I am a Korihor, I meant that I agree with the position he took. It is so condescending for anyone to say that they have THE truth and because they have a testimony of that truth that you must be in error.
I can easily forgive someone for not having the knowledge that I have; heck I was in the same boat just over 4 years ago. Can you read with understanding please? Can you read with love; the same kind of love that I feel for all those friends from other countries some of whom are desperate for help. How can I look upon a woman in the throes of death from AIDS and not be moved with compassion. How could I think that she somehow deserved this because of something she did or didn’t do in the pre-existence? Nobody deserves this, so now I help instead of judging. Am I not a better person even if just in that one area?
Hi Jean,
I just want to say how beautifully you stated your position with regard to your membership of, and resignation from the LDS church, and your reasons for doing so.
I have seen the work that you have been doing with regard to Temple Marriages/Civil Marriages within the church, to try to make the church more family-friendly to those members of the family that are not members of the LDS church, or who are considered too young or ‘unworthy’ to enter the temple to witness the sealings of their relatives..
I have also seen the work you are doing towards helping the women in Africa overcome the evils of AIDS, I am so proud of you..you are committed, compassionate and caring.
I am happy that you discovered your own path out of the church, and so pleased that you were supportive of your son when he was finding his way out..that must have been much appreciated by him.
Keep up the good work Jean..you are an inspiration
Jean, I’m proud of you and your courage. I liked how you handled the Korihor story that Adam told you. When I first left the church and realized that I started to feel the same way Korihor did, it really bothered me because all my life I was taught to believe that this fictional character was evil and that if I thought like him it would be because Satan put those thoughts in my head.
I left the church because I came to a harsh conclusion that the “spirit of truth”is really nothing more than an emotional feeling. soon after than I was exposed to the unbelievably disturbing and massive amount of church history that I never knew my 29 years of being raised in the church. It was a painful hard road to leave, but I left because of the dictates of my own concious. As time goes on, the effects of mind control from the mormon church wear off.
As I mentioned before the story of Korihor was one of the most difficult elements of mind control that I struggled with. haha now I am proud to say that I agree with Korihor’s stance on religion. It really does hold its members down “that they durst not look up with boldness”. I never experience true confidence and self-satisfaction until I left the church, I never learned to love who I really am until I allowed myself to feel true emotions and let them pass from me, instead of feeling guilty and trying to immediate repent for having them. I know that I am not perfect but I love every imperfect thing about me, because it makes up who I am.
Thank-you everyone for rushing to my mother’s defense. I’m glad you all did it, cause I’d have been much more harsh.
Michele: “…so pleased that you were supportive of your son when he was finding his way out..that must have been much appreciated by him.”
Absolutely! I wasn’t particularly surprised because I know my mother is USUALLY a reasonable person. What I was really surprised about, was that my other church (so called) friends, didn’t react in a similar way.
Teri: (not that I think you have the guts to be reading the replies to your non-sensical diatribe) You have no clue what you’re talking about. You don’t know my mother, even if you think you do. She may be an enemy to your church, but she is far more Christian than most christians and she’s not a Christian.
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” -Mahatma Gandhi
Do you DARE to read even a PORTION of the 4 years worth of materials that my mother has gone through in relation to the church? When people here say that she could write a book…they’re not exaggerating. You would simply have to bury your head in the sand to remain in that brainwashing factory after knowing what she knows.
I too am proud of you, Mum. Love you much.
It makes me so sad that I have people who I thought were my friends, who criticize me for defending the truth because I am no longer on the same side of the fence.
They feel sad that I have lost something; but they don’t need to feel sad because I have found something – LIBERTY. I do not really believe the emotion is sadness at all unless it is sadness that maybe the church is not the one and only true church.
I was contemplating yesterday my own arrogance when I was a member of the church. I really believed that my way was THE way. I really thought that if I kept within the teachings of the Church that I could do not wrong. That led me into many ‘foolish errors’. I was down on gays, women’s libbers, intellectuals because I was told they were a danger to the church. I did not want to endanger the church, so I stayed in line and as my son Stuart (see above) can testify, I did my best to keep my kids in line too.
I can’t live my life over again; at least I don’t believe that, so now I live my life according to my own values and knowledge and try to stop wishing that I had done it before using the Church’s mind control tactics on my kids; I so wanted to be with them forever.
Thank you so much for the amazing support here especially to you Stuart – I could never have been through what I have experienced without being totally sure of your love.
What a touching, inspiring story, Jean. Thank you so much for sharing some of what you have experienced. When I was in Jr. High and High School, I attended the hundreds of meetings put on by my (at the time) church, the Mormon’s, that were designed to “inspire” the youth. What I actually felt was depression; there was no woman role model put in front of me who said anything that was the least bit inspiring. I wish there had been someone like you in my life when I was young; I have no doubt my life would have been very different. YOU really are an inspiration!
Thanks again to everyone for their input.
I do have something else to add. I did not call myself an anti-Christ. Alma called Korihor an anti-Christ because he didn’t believe that Christ was going to come. Remember this was long before his birth which is actually anachronistic because Christ is a Greek word – Christos and Joseph Smith said there was no Greek in the B of M. The people did not speak Greek back then.
So, I did not call myself an anti-Christ, I said that I was a Korihor. Just because in the story Alma called Korihor an anti-Christ (a phrase that hadn’t even been invented) doesn’t mean that he was anti anything. He just didn’t believe in some person coming in the future.
I am a KORIHOR; I use the same logic and I do not believe that Christ is the Savior of the world. I do not believe that people can see into the future and I certainly do not believe that the Book of Mormon is scripture. That doesn’t make me anti something; it means I am pro something.
What is that something? Truth. Anyone can give me the anti-mormon label too, but I do not claim it. Mormons are anti-anti-Mormon. If we have left the church; we are wrong and they are right. Teri is a friend – why don’t you call me honey. I don’t bite; I don’t have horns and I still love you – I just can no longer believe in the lies.
Jean,
No one can second guess what is in Teri’s heart, but FEAR has been shown – down through the centuries – to be capable motivator.
Whether a person hesitates upgrading their own education, respecting/accepting people of a different ethnic orientation or being open to friends and relatives new ideas, feelings and life-changing experiences, FEAR blocks one’s ability to be open and embrace the new life-changing information.
Teri, on the other hand, might say, “no it’s not fear. It’s my commitment to my commitment – somewhat akin to a wedding commitment. “I promise that I will always keep my promise.” She’s not giving up even thought it turns out that the other party to the marriage has time and time again shown itself/himself be a lier, manipulator and adulterer of the 1st. order.
Although standing by ones ‘commitment’ is usually noteworthy, it may take until very late in life for Teri to finally ‘see’ that the ‘object-of-her-affection’ sucked life’s very meaning out of her and left her an empty shell with no connection to reality.
Thank you for sharing Jean! It helped me enormously to hear your story. It was the last drop that I needed to go from “I am a mormon with too many doubts” to “I am an ex-mormon”. I have studied, I have prayed, I went to the temple, I got a blessing, and finally I came to the conclusion that I am like a child that found out the truth about Santa – even if I want to, there is no turning back. I told my husband yesterday (who is also my bishop
) about my final decision, and luckily he understands, is not hurt or shocked. But today I am standing in front of a black whole – I feel very alone. I know that my dearest relationships will never be the same again. My best friends are in my and my husbands family. What is waiting for my husband and me? How did you manage? How do you fight depression? I always dreamed of going on a mission together with my husband when he retires. How do I raise my children now? I know that a lot of what I am today is because of my growing up in the church, so how do I substitute that for my children? I am sure I did not take this step as an easy way out – I just hope I will find a new way in the dark that lies ahead…
I answered this brave soul privately. She has started on a tough road, but that is what makes us dig deeper to find out what we are made of and who we are. You CAN make it work with a member spouse but it does rather depend upon the spouse. My husband learned to validate my feelings and my right to my own beliefs; it did not come easily and automatically to him but he saw how much I suffered emotionally when some of my family basically abandoned me. He too had to dig down deep and find compassion for an apostate spouse, who was abandoned for her beliefs. He is a really fine man and he has a great wife – we are awesome!
To anybody who might read this later, I don’t want my last comment stand there alone. The dark has totally lifted and I feel light and happy. The journey is not easy, but even after one week I can say that it was absolutely worth it. And I am not alone. Thanks for these wonderful inspiring videos!!! Thanks for all the support!
Thanks for the encouraging comments Anne! I am so glad these videos have been a strength to you!
Jean,
This is quite a while after you posted but I really appreciated your story. I served in the Durban mission a couple of years after you were in Cape Town and even while I was a true believer there tried to focus more on doing actual service (sans the helping hands t-shirt) than teaching because I saw how much more they needed physical help than spiritual teaching. I started to come to the realization that the church wasn’t all it was cracked up to be in the following years and my determination to return some day and provide some actual help has increased immeasurably. Thanks again for your post and for your continued efforts to help others.
If only all LDS members could act with love and compassion in the way that you did and listen to their ex-member family and friends without fear then at least there could be an environment of acceptance. As it stands active LDS push ex-members away! even family! sons, daughters, spouses!! all in the name of god?! wow. This has probably been the most shattering discovery for me since leaving the church, witnessing the church wide rejection experienced by ex-Mormons. How does one choose god over a child? and a god that insists you believe in him through faith!!!
Anyway, I am rambling on a bit but when I saw your video I just wished so much that my MIL and my dad could be recording their own ex-mormon videos!
Great response w/the Korihor argument!!!
Thank you so much Maureen; how kind of you.
I read your testimony and it touched me. Glad that you are out of Mormonism. I was a Mormon for 13 years but left in 2008 after I found out that its teachings was based on fraud and lies. In 2008, I established the “African ExMormom Foundation to help others understand the harms Mormonism causes. My testimony is available on: http://www.africanexmormons.com
As I look forward to hear from you, it is my fervent prayer that the Lord will continue to bless you in all of your undertakings as you help others come unto Christ.
Darlington, I know of you and the Foundation in, where is it, Liberia? I am also glad that I found my truth, that I now walk to the beat of my own drum without fear of a god looking over my shoulder or being required to love this entity. By this you will see that I will not be leading anyone to Christ, but anyone who wants to hear my truth as I see it after studying for a long time, may talk with me about that.
If you are happy as a believer; that is all that is needed. I love Africa; it is my other home.
I am Priest Ajasa from the Greek.
I cast spell for politicians, Business men and women, for lottery,for Lovers, for Success,for Riches, for winning a court case, Etc.
I read people’s post on goggle and the rest places and i can see how much fake and false spell caster has spoilt every where with there Testimonies.
But why telling lies that you are a spell caster?
You people have made people not to know who is real. )
I am the Gods of solution… A spell Caster with dignity and straight forward.
I learn’t how to cast a spell for over 46 years, if you read my post, you are free to email me on ( lavenderlovetemplesolution@gmail.com)
I hope to read from you.
Priest Ajasa
I am a former Mormon missionary who left Mormonism in 2008 after finding that its teachings were based on fraud and lies. My testimony is available at: http://www.aemf.abceasyhost.com/darlington.htm
I will be glad to be your friend.
can you please send me an email at: dwgbee@yahoo.com
Hello everyone. I am trying to figure out why Jean is so hateful. I was on a facebook group and cut me out simply becuase I told someone not to revile to much personal information on facebook. What is her problem????? Talk about censorship!!!!!
Good day! I know this is kinda off topic but I’d figured I’d ask. Would you be interested in trading links or maybe guest writing a blog post or vice-versa? My site goes over a lot of the same topics as yours and I think we could greatly benefit from each other. If you happen to be interested feel free to shoot me an email. I look forward to hearing from you! Great blog by the way!
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