My name is Nick Godfrey. I was raised in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. My dad is a lifelong member, while my mom converted to the church when I was three years old. Throughout my life I chose to believe and participate in the church. I always attended my church meetings and fulfilled my callings. I strove to obey the doctrines and practices of the church as strictly as possible. I drew a great deal of comfort from my beliefs. Mormonism was at the core of my identity.
In July 2010 I started questioning whether I had a solid basis to believe in Mormonism. I concluded that I couldn’t base my testimony on subjective feelings or personal spiritual experiences because first, people of all faiths feel similar emotions when they worship their gods, and read their holy books and if that is the standard of evidence that I accept Mormonism under, I would have to extend the same standard of evidence to these theologies. Second, the emotions and feelings that lead me to accept Mormonism, no matter how strongly they felt, or how externally generated they felt, could too easily be a product of self-delusion, hallucination, miss-perception, pattern-seeking, or wishful-thinking. I concluded that I needed to look for objective evidence if I was going to accept Mormonism.
As I began to study Mormon history and doctrine deeper than I ever had in my life I began to discover many parts of the church’s history that were intentionally hidden from me. I learned that Joesph Smith claimed to have translated the Book of Mormon from a hat, using a magic rock which he had previously used to defraud his neighbors through a practice known as “money digging”. I learned that every truth claim in the BoM is contradicted by modern archeology, linguistics, and DNA evidence. I learned that egyptologists unanimously agree that the papyrus which Joseph Smith claimed was written “by the hand of Abraham” actually dates to thousands of years after the time that Abraham lived, and not a word of the Book of Abraham translates correctly. The deeper I studied, the larger problems I discovered in the first vision, the priesthood restoration, and every other foundational claim in the LDS church. Eventually I concluded that the historical record is consistent with Mormonism being a product invented by Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, and their contemporaries.
Once I came to this conclusion I had to decide what I still believed. I began to look at Christianity with a critical eye. I had to confront the problems in the bible. I had to question why god would command his people to commit genocide against innocent men, women, and children, why he condoned and commanded slavery, and rape? I had to question why god had inspired the bible to include such ludicrous stories as the garden of Eden or the global flood, and why the all knowing creator of the world hadn’t included such important knowledge as modern medicine and physics. In the end I concluded that the bible was probably written by primitive people trying to make sense of the world with very limited knowledge.
Then I had to confront god. As I looked through history I saw that at one time god was in every storm, every earthquake, and in every aspect of human’s lives. Then, as we began to explore the world and studied how it really worked, we began to find natural explanations for storms and earthquakes. Eventually we were able to explain the formation of the earth and the diversity of life without any sort of supernatural explanation. I began to wonder why god had hidden the evidence of his existence. I began to wonder why god allowed all the pain and suffering in the world. Why would god allow innocent children to be raped, murdered, and tortured? Why would god allow babies to contract cancer and AIDS before they were even born? I began to study arguments for and against the existence of god. I studied the cosmological argument, the teleological argument, the ontological argument, the moral argument, the empirical arguments, the problem of evil, and so on. Eventually I concluded that the arguments against god’s existence were more compelling than the arguments for god’s existence.
At first this was devastating. I went through periods of anger and depression. I wanted too badly for everything I’d been taught to be true, but I could not find evidence to support it. As time went on I became more at peace with my conclusions. I had to restructure my world-view, but I began to find myself more inspired and motivated to work for the good of humanity. Losing faith in the afterlife meant that I only had one shot. and had to make the most of it. Eventually I found others who had been raised with the same beliefs I was, and came to the same conclusions I did. I now have a large circle of close friends who are mostly all ex-mormon atheists going to college here in Utah County. I’ve never been happier in my life. I’ve never been more full of hope and joy. I’ve never been more motivated and optimistic. That’s not to say I’ll never change my mind. But I know the only thing that can change it is empirical evidence, and reasoned logic.
My name is Nick and I’m an Ex Mormon.
Nick; well said. You have managed to state your emotional exit from religious, superstitious belief in a concise way that ANYBODY should be able to understand. Their experience may be different from yours; some people just don’t seem to question, but I have noticed that there is usually some kind of critical event that began the critical thinking process; the logic and the ensuing depression that naturally follows a death. The death of belief is hard enough but then the death of belief in god arrives and we all face that in our own unique ways. Some are able to talk themselves back into that belief but in a new organization while others feel no need for another religion or a belief in a god. Your story is so much like my own and I’m aware of the critical events that started me thinking critically; are you? Do you know? Can you share? I find that very interesting. What makes us different from those who stay in the comfort of religion? Maybe our mattresses had become lumpy and uncomfortable.
Good job; glad you were able to turn on your critical thinking and leave. Glad you are happy; me too.
Ok, my english is very rusty. Have you anyone who speak german? I was over 20 Year a menber but i left this church. I hope you can help me
thx Sibylle
Hi Sibylle,
I don’t know if you’ve seen this on this site, but I thought I would send it to you anyway;
Maria and Henning Schnurr – We are German ExMormons
http://www.iamanexmormon.com/2011/04/maria-and-henning-schnurr-we-are-german-exmormons/
I hope this finds you well.
All the Best,
Joshua
Hallo Sibylle,
Ich kann Deutsch sprechen! – Du kannst mich an anjosd@gmail.com erreichen!
Jean- One of the many problems with mormonism is that people think that it is all about religion. A belief and walk with Christ is not religion. Religion is something man makes up in order to fellowship with those of similar faith. Unfortunately, many religions are created in man’s image and not of God. Many come up with countless rules and beliefs acting as if the rules lead to salvation. Many put man upon a pedestal thinking that man should himself be praised. All I can say is throw it all out and sink your teeth into the Word of God and it will lead you to truth. For me I did want to find people of similar culture to help me along. Although not perfect for all, I found a non-denominational church where I could hear about the Bible and fellowship with others. I am thankful for truth and for a relationship with Christ.
awesome story Nick. as i was reading your story i could really see that many people had gone through the same process i had.
AND there’s one plus to your story. a huge plus: you are not married with children.
my wife of 10 years divorced because i, paradoxically, chose the truth. she decided that she couldn’t live without her “heritage and traditions” although in essence she knows the mormon church is nothing more than a club.
do i need that? of course not. after 3 years of much negotiation she decided to go with it.
i’m much happier now. i’m free and eventually i’ll find somebody more honest and loyal who loves me for who i am. not for whatever organization i may represent.
Hi Malcom,
After reading your comment about your wife, i couldn’t help but feel pained for you. I’m so sad to hear what she has done and sadly she is not alone, many mormons feel the same way. I’ve seen it time and time again. Thankfully i have never had to endure such a thing but i still think it’s HORRIBLE!!! and next to a cheating souse must be one of the worst types of betrayal. To choose a religion over the spouse you promised to love for ever. Anyway i just wanted to wish you all the best. I hope you’ve found your happiness and if you haven’t already i hope you find the woman you deserve.
Sincerely
Bec
Thank you so much Nick for sharing your story. Being able to both read and hear your experiences reminds me of my own de-conversion and newfound foundation of logic. Anyway I am so glad that you are one of my close friends, that you are a part of the group, and a great example of someone who does the right thing, not because of treats but because it is who you are. Thanks again for the great video!
So grateful you have come forward with your story. We have no idea how many people might receive release because you have proclaimed your freedom.
Wow, Nick! Your story and reasoning, and the sequence of your de-conversion is exactly like mine – I even began questioning at the same time, July 2010! It’s so great to hear someone with the same story. I really liked the part when you said that no matter how strong the spiritual experience, it’s still subjective. I hadn’t ever phrased it in that way, but it’s so true. Thanks for sharing your story!
I am so happy for you Nick.
Nick, You’ve managed to reach this point without becoming emotionally bankrupt, something many of us could not do. Kudos, and I respect and admire your conclusions. I left mormonism 24 years ago during a painful mental breakdown, but, have maintained my christian mindset, beit somewhat liberal and encompassing of all. Your words will be very encouraging for many who might just be reading here, not quite ready to make a move, maybe never ready to make a move, but just needing validation.
Nick, your journey takes courage and it sounds like you have handled it well. I am an ex Mormon and I watch how people go from Mormon to non and where that journey takes them. I am always curious if they arrive at an agnostic, atheist or other place. Personally, I feel there are too many first hand accounts (NDE) of an afterlife to dismiss it, but I understand people who put God completely behind them. It takes years to rebuild your spiritual belief system after leaving such a heavily indoctrinated culture but it can be done. I guess I’m addressing the atheist side of your argument. I see too many ex Mormon’s deny the existence of anything after death and I hope everyone can keep an open mind about the existence of spirit, even if the church ended up being a fraud.
In the worlds of a Jewish NDE survivor, “I was told to live according to my beliefs, whatever they may be.” Perhaps that is the key, even for good hearted, humanitarian atheists such as you Nick.
As I’m sure many have said, this is the beginning of your journey, not the end. Good luck!
I’ve had such a tremendous outpouring of support sense this video was released yesterday. I’ve been contacted by believing and non-believing family and friends and couldn’t be happier about telling my story and being a part of this series. Thanks so much for the kind words, especially you Andrew. You’re a great friend.
Jim, I’ve always found NDE accounts to be fascinating. I became a bit obsessed with them as a kid after reading Moody’s Life After Life. There are several reasons I no longer find them to be compelling evidence of an afterlife. I could go into the reasons but our fellow ex-mo Brian Dunning is much smarter and more articulate than me > http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4261 . Sam Harris is open to the possibility of an afterlife, but this is a clip of him brilliantly explaining why certain versions of the afterlife are far less likely than others > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6iHe0ra_UM . Finally, this is a recent news report about atheists who experienced dramatic NDEs and remained atheists > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt0w7KF9eT0&feature=feedu . Sorry to go off on that, I just find the subject so interesting.
You’re right, Nick.
I agree with you! your beliefs need to be objective and based on true results!!!!
The only place where I found God was at http://www.succeedinlife.org
I pray you find God too!! If you do have this true desire, which seems like you do, I believe you will!!
Wow, that’s a long way to get to the idea that there is no God. Sheesh. I think you would have saved a lot of years including service in the church just by starting there. If there is no God, religion makes no sense and is hogwash. No matter what religion it is including Mormonism. No needs of lists of reasons not to believe it.
In the end, it always comes back to the Moroni promise on whether someone will be Mormon or not. They either do what it says or they don’t. If they don’t, many inevitably leave because Mormonism is preposterous without a real God that you can talk to.
Tobin
will you ever shut up tobin? your everywhere! shut up! we dont want to hear what you have to say so stop flattering yourself by saying your ‘helping us’ or whatever you think your doing. We are happy! stop trying to make us think we arent! thats what made us unhappy in the first place!
Going from abused to abuser. That’s new for you Emily. Kind of dark don’t you think? How about this … if you don’t like what I have to say, don’t read it. Happy yet?
@Tobin, usually the direct route isn’t the path that we all take in life…. as they say hindsight is 20-20… this reminds me of Moses and the promised land; would you walk circles around your final destination for 40 years only to die without entering the desired place??? hmm like you I think starting at an atheistic position saves people a lot of time and energy! Don’t worry about the list’s of reasons not to believe in the church… if it’s true then the “anti – mormon” lists and logical reasons will eventually crumble and the great God will wash this earth of all the infidels; finally anti-logic/science/progress will reign supreme. Don’t let the ex-mo’s and never-mo’s get in the way of your dreams!
Your buddy Mike.
P.S. when a “rough around the edges” type person converts to the church do you say to him/her: “Wow, that’s a long way to get to the idea that there’s a God. Sheesh. I think you woulda saved a lot of years including time in jail just by starting here.” ???? Grow up son, please, yer embarrassing yourself.
@Nick Welcome to unencumbered peace and happiness!!!! The threatened “darkness and despair” aint so bad right!!?
Mike,
Oh I agree. People find marvelous ways of wasting their time. Some even waste it posting comments on websites.
Anyway, as you know, I have little tolerance for ex-Mormons and Mormons alike. For example, I’d probably drive alot of Mormons out of the church with a hot poker because I do not enjoy their tripimonies and the other blathering idiotic stuff they chant in church. I’d also take a swipe at the leaders for dumbing down the content and making it the most boring, silent meeting I spontaneously try to avoid like the plague (I’m good through the sacrament then I’m likely to leave – sometimes I’m good for one speech but usually those are too terrible to stay for even then and I just want to walk up front and smack them).
Tobin
Hahaha that’s funny Tobin,
why do you entangle yourself with mormon/ex-mormon dialogues? I’m curious because if I dislike two opposing positions that have no bearing on my life then I let the fools fight amongst themselves…. I bet you like stirring the pot… that’s a lot of fun I know! ;P goading on and watching intellectual “cock fights” makes for good friday night entertainment! Lol That, I respect.
Tobin, you seem to be carrying a lot of anger around. You can’t sit through a meeting without wanting to go up and smack the person talking? I am still a believing member of the LDS faith, a doctor and a scientist. Nick, I thought your story was well thought out and very sincere. I’d like to put some things out there for you to think about, though. First, what you are describing as the same feeling that a Muslim experiences in prayer is not the same type of prayer. Any who are gathered in God’s name, regardless of religion, invite the Spirit of God and that Spirit confirms the sincerity of those who seek Him. While I am LDS, my children attend Catholic schools. I love going to Mass with them. I have felt, on many occasions, an overwhelming feeling of love for God and Jesus Christ during those services. This is not the same as a prayer that began with doing all the research possible, making a decision and presenting that decision before the Lord. The process is different, although the exercise of faith is similar. I am not saying that you haven’t done this, I’m simply pointing out the efficacy of the analogy. Second, as a trained scientist, searching for “objective” proof in order to believe in any religion is flawed reasoning that actually has nothing to do with objectivity. It is, in fact, the opposite of objectivity that should exist in a scientific endeavor. Science has, at its core, one irrevocable flaw. Science cannot prove a negative. Why? As an example, during the time of Louis Pasteur, virulent microbes had never been seen, nor had their effects ever been attributed to any action on their part. At the time, medicine did not have microscopes powerful enough or stains that could illuminate the various pathogens, etc. Instead, it was universally believed that illness was due to “bad air” or “vapors” or a “humoral imbalance” that they believed could be cured by bloodletting to allow the poisons to escape and new blood to form. At the time, many scientists would point out anecdotal evidence that “proved” this theory. If we had stayed at that point, we would never have realized the complexity of what is happening on a molecular level. Because of these historical facts, we now realize that a negative result cannot be used as evidence of non-existence. It may be that we do not have instruments sensitive enough to measure a particular unknown. Being an expert in medicine and science does not objectively tell me God does not exist; in fact quite the opposite is true. To me, it is pure foolishness to consider that intelligent design is laughable. Children are being taught every day that evolution occurring by the substitution, breaking, inversion, translocation or damaging of DNA molecules is a done deal and that the issue has been put to rest. Evolution DOES occur, but not by accident and certainly not by damaging DNA. We evolve by selecting for those traits that allow us to adapt to our environment. What evidence do we have of evolution? Morphology – the fact that one animal looks like another one, including humans. That’s it. Intelligent design does not mean that the intelligence has to be God. Objectively, this makes sense. When was the last time that you saw a book print itself and then bind itself into a cover? When was the last time that you saw a genetic mutation that changes the DNA of a higher mammal that didn’t cause some form of damage that resulted in either death and suffering, or spontaneous abortion? Yes, it can theoretically happen, but it is laughable for the most part because not a shred of evidence exists that could elevate that theory to the level of scientific hypothesis. Yet, we have all been taught that this is fact. I see God in science. When I observe the human body, the eye of an organism as simple as a fruit fly, or any molecular process…all these things testify to me that there IS a god who is an intelligent designer. The principle of entropy, while extremely complex, is basically the tendency of everything to fall apart. Energy follows a downhill gradient unless there is something that “pushes” the energy upward. The tendency of things to fall apart perfectly demonstrates this principle. We have all seen it in objects that wear out, as well as our own bodies and earthly formations. Science actually argues against the possibility that evolution through mutation is a viable hypothesis. We are between 1.4 -2% different from Bonobo chimpanzees, yet, we are distinct species; we cannot interbreed. Objectivity means that while we may not observe something does not mean that it does not exist. Now back to you. I am happy that you are happy. I wish that I could form more convincing words that could help you be happy within the church, but I know that you are absolutely sincere. Hopefully, you are pursuing the path of the agnostic in that you are waiting for the data you now lack. This is far preferable to the life of the atheist. Atheism is a religion. I know that will set people off, but any group that actively organizes to suppress the beliefs of others based on “offense” is as rabidly committed to their cause as the religionist is committed to his/hers. You don’t seem to be that type of person. Tobin’s the angry one. Let him have that. You, I would welcome anytime and I support you in your quest. I wish you nothing but happiness. Keep who you are. You are an unusually perceptive and kind person and you should ignore strident voices of derision, wherever they may be, whether from within the church or those who hate it. It would be a tragedy to see you lose that.
Thank you for sharing!
If I become an ex-Mormon, can I still cheer for BYU? I think BYU is going to kick a lot of ass this year. I’d hate to change now.
I don’t see why not Andrea! I still do genealogy. I still believe a reasonable amount of food storage is a good idea (not a fully stocked bomb shelter!) I still enjoy writing in my journal. I liken it to the patronizing thing Hinckley once said: “you bring all the good that you have, and let us see if we can add to it….” Only now I think “I’ll take the parts of Mormonism I liked, and then get the heck outta here…”
Nick… excellent video! I love when you can see that genuine glow of contentment in someone who has honoured their own integrity and stood up for what they believe, or DON’T believe, in. Thank you for sharing your experience.
You guys are retards!
Great job Nick, love your story, its very similar to mine. Every day I find more and more church members that are reading the whole truth about church history.
Shane, do you believe in God? If you do, then what other religion have you chosen? Did you also put as much effort into evaluating the history of the religion you now embrace? There is no religion, government, creed, etc that will turn out to be perfect. Also, just because someone says something happened does not make it true. If you left the church for this reason, only to join another, but without the same search, you are not being completely honest with yourself. In most cases, someone in the church has caused pain or hurt and this led to the search for historical justification because the LDS church is not a religion that believes in clerical intercession. It is not a Sunday only church, it is a way of life that is hard. Any belief worth having should be hard. Simply assuming that church history is true only when being presented by someone who hates the church or is looking for sensationalism in order to publish a scholarly work is not historical research. I hope that you find what you are looking for and that you will find happiness in whatever you choose.
Brian-Thank you for standing up to your own convictions. I did the same after 7 children, and a temple marriage to a returned missionary who served in two Bishopric positions, supposedly called by inspiration, while he exposed himself. After the divorce, at age 30, I learned some of my children were molested by my youngest brother and sister, and my entire Mormon family denied it. A lawyer advised them to pretend I didn’t exist. My Mormon bishop brother said it was none of his business. This denial is simply common in any group, to cover shame, at the expense of those harmed.
I used to teach Gospel Doctrine. It was only after I started reading instead of just using the cherry picked information of the Mormon Church, and extracting myself from the ‘role’ I was in, that I gained my own self respect. I felt miserable in that religion. Of course the blamers would suggest ‘Despair cometh of iniquity’. My iniquity was probably playing along in a role, instead of truly thinking for myself.
Racism and polygamy and the idea that some bishop or husband could decide for me what I ‘should’ do by inspiration, and all the hoops to jump through to be a valiant Mormon were really bummers, and unbelievable. A God could not be less loving than me.
Brigham Young was blatantly racist, and is quoted in many past books and papers making awful statements of the low intelligence of blacks, and how the white man was intended to be their Master. He was in power for a long time. There is a statement that the winner writes the history books. Whomever cleaned up the B or M from ‘white and delightful people’ to ‘fair and delightful’, etc. was an example of that. Pure Ethnocentrism and ignorance.
Learning that Joseph Smith’s second wife was 16, and done in secret, without his wife’s knowledge, also was a red flag. He ended up with 24 or 27? Really? And a woman’s job is to be submissive and obedient to her husband, swallow her own feelings (so she is dishonest), and her greatest calling is to be a mother and wife. It was too much like being a brood mare, and still competing beneath it all. Watch Youtube’s FLDS accounts, to grasp similarities in thinking and brainwashing.
It is my belief that most Mormons are simply illiterate in their own history. slkgej6 spoke defensively, as if all literature, newspaper accounts and Mormon records (including changed versions of the BofM, are simply written by ‘bad’ people, hating the Mormon Church. This says that they have their own research to do. If one is afraid, or made to feel afraid or guilty for asking questions, they are manipulated, and that is one rule of a cult. Alcoholism and the 12 step rules are also similar: Don’t talk about the problems, don’t feel, and don’t trust. And blame everyone else for your actions. Religions blame Satan, and credit God. Where is human accountability?
Brian-if you refer to the Mormon Church as ‘the church’, you are affirming it is the only church. Remember, it is not. Catholics, etc. speak in the same terms. ‘The Mormon Church’ would be good to hear. ;-}
slkgej6: Thomas Paine wrote: The world is my country, and to do good is my religion. Spirituality and religion are different. Religion is excluding, as in only their baptised members who are ‘good’, get to heaven or get their reward. Spirituality is inclusive, as in we all are children of God, or one.
Using the Bible for truth is also not a great idea. It has been bastardized by men.
I simply live by faith. A religion is not necessary to talk to, be close to, or guided by…whatever idea of God you have. It is not even necessary to believe in God to be a great person. To me, religion was simply a level of learning. I liked listening to NDE’s or after life accounts. I learned more from those, affirming my own personal beliefs.
A friend of mine dove into the Mormon Church as I dove out. She said I was the most honest loving person she knew, and could not understand why I left the M church. I told her it was because of those things. She also said she’d have to be crazy to do everything she was involved in, if the Mormon Church wasn’t true. I told her to be careful, as she might just hear what she said someday. She probably still believes that not paying tithing means you’ll become a potato chip as the Destroying Angel will torch you in the Last Day, or those that don’t listen to two young Mormon missionaries, after the two shake the dust off their feet, are doomed to be wiped out in a similar fashion. Whomever came up with eternal fire as a manipulative tool, for the God that said Charity never faileth and forgive 70×7. oops. I’m nearing my limit.
This is an interesting site. I left the church quietly, but not because I don’t believe in the truth or History as it happened, or God, because I still believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ. I believe that many people in this situation are missing what the bible preaches about “a falling away” or a great apostasy that was prophesied in the New testament in several places that is happening right now. The problem with the church is that they have watered down the beliefs and doctrines so much, and changed the policies to suit the world, that they now contradict the very teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith and have lost the foundation that he once established in truth. There are dozens of prophecies in the bible and by the Prophets and Apostles in the mid 1800′s that have prophesied the rise of God’s kingdom in the last days from those who will come out of the church, but will remain faithful to all of God’s commandments and serve him, even as the prophets of old did. It is a shame if in leaving the LDS church those of you who have, have also lost your belief in God. God requires a willing heart and a willing mind, and I see much selfishness and worldliness in the reasons spoken by those who have also thrown out God. Obedience is the first law of Heaven and is greater than sacrifice. Well have the scriptures spoken that many will be walking in darkness at noon day, and searching for truth, but no not where to find it. What a sad time it is we live in.
Interesting. I’m in much the same boat. However, I still attend the Mormon church – mostly for the laughs (I laugh because it hurts to cry
) and because there are alot of well-meaning, but often misguided people there. I really don’t feel most of them know the truth better than in other churches. In fact, a lot of them are so caught up in Mormonism that they miss being Christian and decent and caring about others. Also, God hasn’t told me to start another church nor can I give you any other good insight other than seek God and do what God tells you to do. I hope to sit down and have a nice chat with God again at some point, but I have alot of areas in my own life and in my own being to improve before I have another run-in with God (my last encounter with God, while vivid, is not one I care to repeat again). I know with God’s help that I can do it, but it will take alot of time (maybe a liftetime), but that is the point of the gospel. I may have a knowledge of God (that I do not doubt – it isn’t faith – I know there is a God). However, I still have ALOT of questions and don’t pretend to be anywhere near having the capacity of a prophet (those with that kind of being and capacity I greatly admire – Gandhi for example is a great hero of mine).
Tobin
I converted to the church a few years ago, I grew up agnostic and early in my 20′s embraced atheism and then I’d say I became a militant atheist. I started reading books by Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens and really found my identity in them. In a lot of ways my story is exactly the opposite of Nick. What I appreciate most about this video is his sincerity. And his moral character, he didn’t go to church and live a lie when he got to that point where he didn’t believe anymore. That speaks volumes about what kind of person he is. When he talks about telling his family about his doubts and problems he has with church teachings you can feel how hard that must of been. He isn’t bitter, he doesn’t have an ax to grind, he is just real, and vulnerable. I know I’m in the wrong yard here but it’s refreshing to see a video or read an exit story that isn’t full of anger and resentment. I know some people go through things in the church that are horrible and tragic and I don’t mean to trivialize situations like that. But usually all I ever find with the anti or exmo stuff is anger and a feeling of injustice, and clear feelings about how I’m looked at by “them.” But not here. I feel like I could sit down with this guy and talk with him about the church or anything and it would be nothing but respect. I spend a lot of time going through the anti stuff. I’m warned not too, but if the church really is true then I don’t have anything to worry about. I spent 30 years in “the world” and I have no doubt as to what I believe and no regret in my choices. And neither does this guy. He’s genuine. I just wanted to say I have a lot of respect for that. I think that’s rare no matter where you look.
Liam I love what you wrote here. I found it really insightful, and my only regret is that it is a few months old and maybe you won’t be back to see if anyone replied!
Just some thoughts about the anger -I see many converts on this site and elsewhere who comment on the negative attitudes of some Ex-Mormons.
Unlike you, many of us weren’t lucky enough to have those 30 formative years outside of the church. You chose the church, having freedom to do so after finding your own path there. If you could take just a sec to think about the juxtaposition between your experience versus being born into it.
There are serious repercussions most Ex-Mormons deal with on the relationship front, especially with key relationships such as close friends and family. When these are faced due to one sincerely moving forward with integrity on one’s life path, in the same way Nick described, there is the tendency to experience frustration for many, if not all, Ex-Mormons.
(Perhaps you experienced this fall-out because of joining Mormonism)
Anger can be a great catalyist in the process. I think it is often a necessary stage to pass through (most do pass through, anger is not the destination). In addition to the family dynamics being tricky at best for the majority of us, people often not only feel lied to about the true but less faith-promoting history and doctrines of the church. Many made their major life decisions according to doctrines they no longer believe in. Many of us charted our young adult / adult lives by patriarchal blessings we received, in good faith, as young teenagers. It can be difficult to reconcile this.
However, one thing I can’t excuse is for ex-Mormons to insinuate anything about believers for staying, or attempt to belittle TBMs. You bring up a valid point there, and hopefully the ex-Mormon community is moving in the right direction on that front.
Absolutely. I would love to have a man like him as a friend because he seems like what you see is what he is. He’s not trying to fake anyone out or attack. He’s just telling a story that is packed with his own struggle with faith. I admire his courage in being honest in taking a massively difficult step because he was unwilling to lie. And he did it without condemnation, hatred or bitterness. I can see why those who know him in or out of the church would love him.
The logic that you use in the video and the way that you express yourself are direct, honest, and simple. I wish that I had heard something like this years ago when I was silently questioning my beliefs.
My exit story is incidentally very similar to yours. It’s amazing how much brighter the world becomes without the weight of forcing oneself to believe.
Cheers and thanks for sharing!
I am not, nor have I ever been Mormon. In fact, I’ve been a mostly non-believing Catholic for the last 20 years since my ‘confirmation.’ But I went through my own transformation this summer in which I discovered myself, and to an extent, a belief that God does exist. I am happy and at peace for the first time in my life, and that I can live this way without any religion. Check out Kevin’s video on this site to get the gist of what I felt, and how in my own way, I also wanted what Kevin describes as ‘the plane going down.’
I ended up on this site because I became interested after listening to the musical “The Book of Mormon” a few months back. I loved everything about what I was listening to, and came to respect other people’s faith and intelligence much more because of it. That respect, however, can only come in what Nick describes as empirical evidence and reasoned logic. Which in my words, is simply, “does it make sense?” It doesn’t have to make sense for me to respect it. It just has to make sense to the other person for me to respect it. I don’t have to believe it for myself, but who am I to question what makes sense to someone else.
Finally, I want to encourage Nick in two ways. First, I’m happy to hear that you’re open minded and willing to research available texts and talk to people before coming to your own conclusion. Second, be careful about letting atheism become a religion to you. It is too easy for anybody in any religion to take things too far or let it blind them too much. I do believe that some kind of God exists. I also believe that someday, neurologists will discover a science of God, and know where in the brain that notion comes from. I’m a little older than you, and I will tell you that there are some things that can come to your mind and your heart that you just know, without evidence and without logic. There are mysteries. There is love. There is forgiveness. There are miracles.
All the best to you, and to anyone who comes across this page.
Nick, thanks so much for sharing why you left the church. I went through almost the exact same process of discovery and hearing you explain your experience totally solidifies that other people have felt the same way.
To All of you,
if you dont believe or don’t have faith in God and in his true church, have you asked yourselves what will happen to you after this life on earth?
God is the Alpha and the Omega.
Faith is hoping for things which are not seen but are true.
No, Franz, faith is actually defined as “belief without evidence.” (If we believe based on objective evidence, it’s not faith–it’s conviction i.e. we’ve been rationally convinced.)
As far as “have you asked yourselves what will happen to you after this life on earth?”–with its implicit threat of a hellish afterlife–sadly, this is what god-believers always seem to come to, when dealing with nonbelievers. Now, all the believers I’ve ever come across have said that the reason *they* believe is NOT a fear of hell; and I think they were sincere when they said that. But they just have nothing else, when it comes to trying to convince someone who doesn’t *already* share their beliefs (or want to): “You better believe [as I do], or you’re goin’ ta Hell!”
So, to answer your actual question: Indeed I have asked myself what will happen to me, after my life on Earth. I’ve arranged to have my carcass harvested for organs, if there are any that could help another person; or to have the whole thing donated to an anatomy lab, if not. There’s no reason to think I’ll have any consciousness after I die, so I’ll never know whether my wishes are followed or not; I may be buried, in which case my remains will disintegrate underground, or I may be cremated.
There’s no reason to think I’ll have any more life than the one I’m living right now. That’s what gives energy, purpose, and urgency to it.
Nick,
Thank you for sharing your story. It resonated deeply with me, as I too trod the path you’ve taken to a similar transformation a generation ago (I remember when the Provo temple grounds were an empty lot). It sounds as if you haven’t had to give up your familial relationships as you’ve moved on from the faith of your youth; in this you are indeed blessed!
Keep thinking, keep examining, keep growing and thanks so much for sharing your clearly articulated reasons why.
I stumbled across your site & video via Dan Savage’s blog. I just wanted to let you know that I admire you & the fact that you’ve arrived at the same point that I have, although it took me the better part of 48 years to come to my senses. Like Dan, I was raised Catholic. Even though I knew from early childhood that I am gay, I continued to “practice” the faith that I was indoctrinated into. No one is born of any faith. Religion is thrust upon us by, hopefully, well-meaning parents. In the last couple of years I’ve come to the realization that, while religion is well intentioned, it gets in the way of our human experiences.
Be well & know that there are many out here who DO understand & admire your journey.
Dennis, Tampa, FL
I also saw this on Dan Savage’s site. Your story sounds very similar to how I went from a Catholic child to an atheist adult. Once you start questioning, researching, and thinking for yourself, it’s hard to accept what these religions are trying to sell as “truth.” I don’t say that other people shouldn’t have “faith” but I hope that they are using their brains at the same time.
I guess they will simply accuse you of not having enough faith?
Which is their typical ‘ stock-standard ‘ pitiful excuse for those that ‘ wise-up ‘ and detect their ideological BS!
Well done Nick!
Please be careful not to jump from the frying-pan into another religious fire!
They are ALL man made BS!
Nick,
I’m a Mormon, and dude, thank you for proving to me that this church is true!! your words mean a lot to me!! and by the way, if you couldn’t teach and go to the temple because you felt like you didn’t believe and like so you would be lying, then don’t say the best thing you did was to leave the church. And besides if your so honest and nice and all that… then you might wanna try and not be such a hypocrite and join this website to stimulate people in to not believing the church!!
Your a good guy,
Allan
Allan,
I have no idea what you said:
1) Why or how did he “prove” to you that the church is true?- you just let that subject die before it got started.
2) What about being honest, and not teaching something as if he believed it when he didn’t, means he shouldn’t say that leaving the church was the best thing he’s done? You know he’s talking about his own personal knowledge and experience, right? So if he knows that, so far, leaving was the best he’s done, than it is, according to him.
3) What does honesty and “being nice” have to do with not being part of this website? Also, what is hypocritical about him?
The only way I can make sense of what you are saying is that you are simply assuming that your LDS beliefs are totally correct, so everything he thinks is totally wrong, and (despite your disagreement with eachother) he ought to know better and act as if he’s wrong and not tell people what he really thinks. So you want him to not be hypocritical by not saying things that are true to what he believes since he knows what he believes is false?
Do you see how I’m so confused by your post?
I am a “generic” Christian and love hearing the faith points of view of others. I so admire your willingness to walk away from so much. I’m not sure that those of us outside Mormonism can really comprehend all of the complications and pain you had to endure. I’d be interested to know how you feel about just the New Testament, just Jesus and the Gospels perhaps? Josephus and archeology do support more of that for us. If later you have any interest, or find the need for a moral code to pass on the golden rule and love your neighbor and even your enemy are hard to beat in my humble opinion. Best of luck to you in every way.
That is very interesting Rebecca. Do you go to atheist websites and express the same feeling about ex-Christians that abandon Christianity because there isn’t a shred of scientific proof that any of the Bible is true (the citing of Josephus was undoubtedly a forgery and the fact the fictional Bible was set in the Middle-east and they found some old buildings proves absolutely nothing)? I’ll let Nick express how he feels about it, but I really do think Christians don’t have much to crow about here. What do you expect ex-Mormons to do here? Do you expect them to immediately join the next fantasy club embrassing miracles, people walking on water, rising from the dead, and talking to themselves after just having left that party up the street?
Tobin
See my response for the “scientific” proof. From a simple point of view, putting faith in science is no different than any other faith. Where did this all begin? What came before the “big bang”? Why is there symmetry in so many things? Why do people who completely flat line describe similar near death experiences and come back to tell about them? If they are flat lined they have no brain activity.
Thanks for your comments. I personally am a believing and practicing Latter-day Saint and I think it’s nice that you have a forum of communicating how you found acceptance in your life. Tobin- it does no good for you to antagonize others. Be understanding and respectful towards the point of view of others. I think that’s what my faith teaches me to be.
Ok whoever-you-are,
What exactly did I say that was disrespectful of other people’s points of view? I was just recently musing about how interesting I find it that Christians (who’s beliefs could be characterized as being as fanciful and fictitious as anything a Mormon might believe) seem to relish the opportunity to convert ex-Mormons to their “true” faith. I find that pretty hilarious since the same arguments used against Mormonism can be easily employed against Christianity as well. Of course, I’ve also had the opportunity to speak with a “few” Mormons that have converted to Christianity and when I employ those same arguments with them – they get that deer-in-the-headlights look that I imagine they had when they were Mormons.
Tobin
Tobin, look at your original post. You call members of the church and ex-Mormons alike, hypocrites say you would like to “slap them”. That is not respectful, it’s disdain. I would bet that in real life, you are probably a very funny guy and fun to be around, but it’s hard for people to see that side of you as anything other than disrespectful if you obscure that quick wit with sarcasm. This isn’t a political site, where sarcasm can sometimes be used as rhetoric. When people’s beliefs are at question, sarcasm feels disrespectful.
While I applaud your effort to examine the world and explore the existance of God or a creator, I would also point out that the Fibonacci Numbers and the Golden Ration are very strong evidence to support creation. I have a similar background and was rasied as a Mormon from birth. I have discussed this with many Atheists who put their total faith in science and I have never been given a fact-based response with evidence detailing how this phenomenon could happen randomly/naturally. The ratio and the numbers are found throughout the human body, they are found all over our natural world, and are even present in space. With the extent of this precise number formula happening in so many different places, can anybody provide evidence to support that this all happened randomly? The best argument I have been given is that the force of pressure in the environment could make things develop in a similar way. However, there is no evidence to support that and the “pressure” and other forces are different in space than they are on earth. They are also different depending on the type of matter that is under development. Could these precise calculations all be happenstance or the result of total evolution? It is a mathematical impossibility and therefore, after an extensive search for truth myself after being raised a Mormon, I have found that truth in Christ but not as a Mormon. The Mormon church is false for the reasons you already described. The Fibonacci Numbers and the Golden Ratio are very clear and strong evidence that a creator made the universe and it is inescapbale that they could not exist randomly in so many different places. Google them and you will see how much evidence is there. Either way, it requires you to put faith in something and Atheism is, eventually, a blind faith since science does not have all the answers. I will put my faith where it belongs and I hope that others will too.
On a side note, I would also point you all to the many documented NDE’s that exist about heaven and hell and how similar the information is. If a person has flat lined, there is simply no consciousness left in the boy at all and that also debunks the argument that these are just dreams, etc.
Hi Eddy,
Having been an atheist, I would argue that the existence of order or patterns in the universe does not by itself prove the existence of God since there are equally compelling theories on why these may exist (including that is just the way the universe is which is a completely fine explanation). The Bible (or Book of Mormon) or whatever religion you may believe in often has proofs that they are true. Basically, they set the bar that people can actually seeing God, angels, miracles, etc. If you God is unseeable, then I would ask what good is he then? If you can’t actually experience this God, then I would argue that as far as any reasonable person may be concerned – your belief in such a God is afiction. Now if you rely on NDE as proof there is a God, I would agree. But, that is the thing – it is really a final proof since most people DO NOT come back from being dead. So basically, it is really the acid test of whether or not there is a God. If after you die, you are still around – a thinking, emotional, reasoning being – then I would think that atheism is an untenable position at that point. However, NDE’s are NOT good evidence of God for people that haven’t died (or almost died) since they don’t know if what someone experienced was real or not.
Tobin
Hi Tobin
Thanks for your thoughtful response. I totally disagree that the specific number patterns, very precise patterns found in so many places is “just the way the universe is”. That kind of precision does not just happen and by mathematical standards is actually impossible to exist at random in so many different places.Your statement is also not really compelling since it basically ignores the facts. The facts are this proportion exists on earth, in our bodies, in the cell structure of many living things, in space. By saying “that is just the way the universe is” says that you have a predetermined position that can not be swayed by evidence. The evidence is there for all of us and by the sheer fact that these things exist, should be enough for a reasonable person to, at least, admit that it is possible evidence of a creator. Again, you have to put faith in something at some point. So, you have put your faith in Atheism.
You can only ignore evidence and first hand accounts so much. The fact is that NDE’s of both heaven and hell are similar across cultures and religions. Many have come back from the dead who left as Buddhists, Muslims, Atheists, and have converted immediately to Christianity. The same evidence is not there in the opposite direction. I have found no evidence of Christians or Atheists coming back and converting to other religions. However, the point of our life is faith and you will have to accept that at some point. God will provide some evidence but it is up to us to make a choice. I have presented plenty of evidence and I leave it to you and others to make your choice. I believe God is found throughout science and if you would like another scientific perspective, you should read “The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief”. A true Atheistic scientist found his Christian faith through his work on the Human Genome Project. Really a fascinating story no matter your beliefs. Again, at some point faith is required by science or God.
Hi Eddy,
We’ll just have to agree to disagree. The fact that there are certain patterns in the universe does not prove 1) that there is a God or 2) that God put them there. It is perfectly plausible to just assert that is just the way the universe is (and I don’t need God to account for them). Your assumption that in a universe w/o a God there must be random universe (w/o these patterns) is flawed IMO and leads you to literally putting the cart-before-the-horse in this case. One just doesn’t necessitate the other.
As far as NDE’s, there is just NO good reason to believe them. It is someone else’s experiences. If I cannot experience God or see God, there is no reason for me to believe anyone else can or has. That goes for anyone claiming to having seen anything supernatural as well (NDE or not). It is just that simple.
Simply put, atheism is the “best” position to maintain unless you have actually experienced God. My question to you is this – have you? If not, I would assert that you are just pushing a fiction or maybe it is just wishful thinking, but you have no basis to believe any of it is real.
Tobin
Hi Tobin,
Calling me simple doesn’t change the facts I have presented, they exist. Whether you believe nature just happens to exist the way it does or you consider a creator made it the way it is, the fact that these formula’s and patterns exist is a strong enough reason to seek out answers. You can put your head in the sand all you want. However my beliefs are not based on these facts, they merely support my position. FAITH is the basis for my belief as it is for yours as well whether you admit it or not, you don’t have the answers.
I have been on a lifelong journey and I have always been seeking the truth. After years of studying the evidence I have presented to you, I have reached a natural conclusion. You can ignore the facts and claim you have the “best” answer but the evidence against your position is strong. You can say it all just happens to be that way but that is the really simple way of looking at it. You are unwilling to even examine it, which seems to be a very anti-scientific method position to take. Science being the basis for Atheism you are only contradciting your own methods. You can not explain NDE’s similarity from a multitude of backgrounds and timelines. Many of them were documented long before television or the internet and still have close similarity to those documented today. They also coincide with what is described all over the bible in the Old Testament and the New Testament. So, all of that just happens to be coincidence too? I am sure you will say, “yes”.
I hope one day you will take an honest look at the information I provided instead of brushing it under the rug as if it doesn’t exist. I was in a similar place many years ago but I chose to do just that and I know I am in the right place now.
PS. The Book of Mormon and the Bible have nothing in common. The Bible has plenty of historical evidence to support its existance and the people described in it. The Book of Mormon lacks all of that. The early Prophets like Brigham Young did many dreadful things that were hidden by the church and still are to a very large extent. Finding these things out about the “Prophet, Seer, and Revelator” are what initially sent me searching for Truth. Brigham Young was responsible for many innocent deaths and he taught that Adam is God, which is now contradicted by the Church. How could such a foundational doctrine be different from one Prophet to the next? These are only a couple of questions I sought answers to when I initially left the church. It is definitely not the true church and I would encourage anybody who believes it to really seek the truth as I did, my family included.
God Bless you.
Hi Eddy,
I’m not implying you are simple, just confused and not using sound reason. Observing a pattern in nature does not prove there is a God nor is it evidence of God. I’m not being dishonest or “putting my head in the sand” by stating that. It is just a simple factual statement.
As far as the Bible and Book of Mormon being unrelated, please….
The Bible and Book of Mormon (or Quran) or any magic book set in historical places proves nothing. You can believe in magic books all you want. There is NO evidence that any of the things in any of these books actually happened. No amount if digging in the Americas, Middle east, or wherever your magic book comes from will prove a thing. All you have is wishful thinking and faith in magic sayings in a magic book. Without God showing up (which ironically Mormons have the best case for since they at least claims God still shows up – the last time a Christian actually saw God was over 2000 years ago), your magic book means nothing. The Bible is not relevant to the modern era. Even the latest additions to it are over 2000 years out-of-date and believing in something like that makes little sense for anyone in the modern era.
Tobin
Tobin,
I don’t need anybody to tell me how to reason and I have seen no reasoning from your point of view. I gave you lots of reasoned response that you choose to ignore. I explained my thoughtful contemplation of what we can all see if we care to look and how this information only supports my faith. You saying that is just the way it is, is not sicence at all. It is a faith based religion of Atheism. All you have done is basically say what I documented could exist on its own. That is not an argument or evidence of anything. That is head-in-sand.
On to the “magic book”. The Romans existed, they are in the Bible. The Jews exist as a people today and are in the Bible. Cities and regions are mentioned that we know exist today. There is also quite a bit of circumstantial evidence to support the Bible and the people in it from the regions it was written in and about. There are plenty of dated artifacts that can be linked to Bible teaching. None of that exists with the Book of Mormon. It is simply not equitable to the Bible. Some exists for the Quran but then I point you to the NDE evidence being a strong indication that Islam is false. Taking my faith and all of my reaonsing into account, I arrive at both a spiritual and physical reality. I will believe this now and will forever and I hope you will too. I would hate to see anybody experience hell the way it has been described by so many unbelievers, Mormons, Atheists, Muslims, and others who have been there.
Eddy,
Let me be clear. I don’t have to supply a reason. I’m not asserting there is a God. I’m stating there is no evidence of God, so there is no reason to believe YOUR assertion that there is one.
As far as the Bible, it is a book of fiction. It is SET in historical situations, but that doesn’t prove anything. Plenty of other books of fiction are set in historical situations. You don’t accept those as being magic books from God do you? The Quran for instance would be equally comparable to the Bible in historical situations that would use to “prove” the Bible is legitimate. Do you accept the Quran as the word of God? There is simply no historical evidence that shows that 1) there was a garden of eden and we descended from only two human beings 2) there was a world-wide flood 3) that jesus christ walked on water 4) that jesus christ came back from the dead and so on. All of these claims are in the Bible and there is no proof what-so-ever they any of them are true.
Tobin
Hi Tobin,
Your insulting demeanor does not sway me. I find your argument humorous with its double standard. You demand absolute proof of God but you offer no reason to explain the existance of the Fibonacci number pattern in thousands of different places in our universe. It is impossible to occur as much as it does in so many different places, both living things and non living things. Your argument is dillusional arrogance.
Hi Eddy,
I am sorry you feel that way. I was simply trying to make you understand that I see no reason to embrace your superstitious beliefs. You are much like the ancient Greeks who were sacred of lightning and thunder and couldn’t understand these natural phenomenon so they made up a belief in a God called Zeus. Your antiquated beliefs have no place in the modern world of science and knowledge and your magic book, the Bible, is equally as out of place in a world where we have jet aircraft and computers. It is simply laughable to believe in magic books of fiction without some evidence that any of its claims are true. I’m sorry, but I strongly encourage you to seek some real evidence of God because promoting such a belief. If you happen to see your God or experience him in some manner other than noting patterns in nature that lead no-one but the superstitious into a belief in the divine – I would welcome such an account. Until then, you might as well be peddling a belief in Santa Claus because I could sustitute all your arguments for God and replace it with Santa Claus and it would make just as little sense.
Tobin
You are a sorry person if you get your kicks insulting people of faith. Again, you result to further dillusion and arrogance. There are plenty of great minds, smarter than you and me, who believe. You insult all of them with your tired attempts at jokes. You appear to have lost this debate with your last post full of personal insults and nothing countering the information I gave on any kind of intellectual level.
Eddy,
A few pointers (free of charge):
1) When someone questions what you state or argue, you need to provide some kind of counter argument. The more reasonable, the better.
2) When discussing (debating) with someone, you NEVER state you won or the other guy lost. You leave that up to audience.
3) You remember how I said I “used” to be an atheist. The fact is I am a theist. I’ve actually seen God, so I believe very much that God exists. However, I do not believe YOUR GOD exists. I believe your evidence is meaningless and your God is a fiction. I’d strongly encourage you to actually see and speak to God yourself. Then you and I can discuss the reality of what God is and what God may be like. I’d also encourage you to avoid magic books and magic sayings. The best way to understand God is watch those that exceed the human condition like Gandhi and pattern your life after such individuals.
Tobin
Nick – That is so sad. The good news is you are free to believe whatever you want. If your path will lead you to be a better person, love others, and serve others – more power to you. However, I think you will find the opposite as time goes on. I hope that is not the case. As life gets plainer, less flavorful and you begin to look for “something”, don’t turn to alcohol & drugs to numb those feeling – go find God.
Your message shares a common Mormon view of “apostates” that provided much of the motivation to create this video series: ExMormons will have a worse life and as time goes on they will feel hollow and empty because of the darkness of the world and Satan’s influence. I am paraphrasing a bit of course
But one of the main goals of the video series is to show people that they do not need to fear leaving. Some people might go through a transition period after leaving the church as they find themselves and struggle to understand their place in the world- but these videos hold up examples of people who have happier lives, love more and judge less etc etc. I want to help those who are on this path. Interestingly, many ex Jehovah’s Witnesses find these videos very helpful as well. I understand if you don’t share my perspective, but I hope you can at least understand my desires and motivation a little bit better, and that these videos help you to better understand and love ExMormons.
I have a question. So, do ex mormons believe in Christ? Do you believe in the priesthood? Do you believe in a plan of salvation? do you believe in sacrad scriptures? If so how does the fact of having this kind of believes affect your life?
Thanks
God’s Simple Plan of Salvation
My Friend: I am asking you the most important question of life. Your joy or your sorrow for all eternity depends upon your answer. The question is: Are you saved? It is not a question of how good you are, nor if you are a church member, but are you saved? Are you sure you will go to Heaven when you die?
God says in order to go to Heaven, you must be born again. In John 3:7, Jesus said to Nicodemus, “Ye must be born again.”
In the Bible God gives us the plan of how to be born again which means to be saved. His plan is simple! You can be saved today. How?
First, my friend, you must realize you are a sinner. “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23).
Because you are a sinner, you are condemned to death. “For the wages [payment] of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). This includes eternal separation from God in Hell.
“ . . . it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).
But God loved you so much He gave His only begotten Son, Jesus, to bear your sin and die in your place. “ . . . He hath made Him [Jesus, Who knew no sin] to be sin for us . . . that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).
Jesus had to shed His blood and die. “For the life of the flesh is in the blood” (Lev. 17:11). “ . . . without shedding of blood is no remission [pardon]” (Hebrews 9:22).
“ . . . God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8).
Although we cannot understand how, God said my sins and your sins were laid upon Jesus and He died in our place. He became our substitute. It is true. God cannot lie.
My friend, “God . . . commandeth all men everywhere to repent” (Acts 17:30). This repentance is a change of mind that agrees with God that one is a sinner, and also agrees with what Jesus did for us on the Cross.
In Acts 16:30-31, the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas: “ . . . ‘Sirs, what must I do to be saved?’ And they said, ‘Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved . . . .’ ”
Simply believe on Him as the one who bore your sin, died in your place, was buried, and whom God resurrected. His resurrection powerfully assures that the believer can claim everlasting life when Jesus is received as Savior.
“But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name” (John 1:12).
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Romans 10:13).
Whosoever includes you. Shall be saved means not maybe, nor can, but shall be saved.
Surely, you realize you are a sinner. Right now, wherever you are, repenting, lift your heart to God in prayer.
In Luke 18:13, the sinner prayed: “God be merciful to me a sinner.” Just pray: “Oh God, I know I am a sinner. I believe Jesus was my substitute when He died on the Cross. I believe His shed blood, death, burial, and resurrection were for me. I now receive Him as my Savior. I thank You for the forgiveness of my sins, the gift of salvation and everlasting life, because of Your merciful grace. Amen.”
Just take God at His word and claim His salvation by faith. Believe, and you will be saved. No church, no lodge, no good works can save you. Remember, God does the saving. All of it!
God’s simple plan of salvation is: You are a sinner. Therefore, unless you believe on Jesus Who died in your place, you will spend eternity in Hell. If you believe on Him as your crucified, buried, and risen Savior, you receive forgiveness for all of your sins and His gift of eternal salvation by faith.
You say, “Surely, it cannot be that simple.” Yes, that simple! It is scriptural. It is God’s plan. My friend, believe on Jesus and receive Him as Savior today.
If His plan is not perfectly clear, read this tract over and over, without laying it down, until you understand it. Your soul is worth more than all the world.
“For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul?” (Mark 8:36).
Be sure you are saved. If you lose your soul, you miss Heaven and lose all. Please! Let God save you this very moment.
God’s power will save you, keep you saved, and enable you to live a victorious Christian life. “There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, Who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it” (1 Corinthians 10:13).
Do not trust your feelings. They change. Stand on God’s promises. They never change. After you are saved, there are three things to practice daily for spiritual growth:
Pray — you talk to God.
Read your Bible — God talks to you.
Witness — you talk for God.
You should be baptized in obedience to the Lord Jesus Christ as a public testimony of your salvation, and then unite with a Bible-believing church without delay. “Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord . . . .” (2 Timothy 1:8)
“Whosoever therefore shall confess [testify of] Me before men, him will I confess also before My Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 10:32).
BeV,
For something titled “God’s Simple Plan of Salvation”, you sure seem to need a wall of text and magic sayings to make your point (not that magic sayings ever mean very much at all). Let me examine this for a moment, 1) God exists (yet as far as I can tell you’ve never actually seen your God) 2) that God doesn’t really talk to us personally, but through a book of magic sayings (aka Bible) that requires us to quote various parts (in no particular order) to make up (i mean understand) what God wants to say to us 3) once we have stumbled over all those hurdles, we are now qualitified to quote these magic sayings at other people, so they may be saved by believing the same goo and broken thinking that we had to use to get there in the first place. At least that is my take on the “God’s Simple Plan of Salvation” that I’m reading here.
Tobin
Hi Nick,
You should really look at Truman Madsen and his works on “timeless questions gospel insights”. It gives a very interesting perspective on the nature and problem of Evil, suffering, and many of the issues you raise and question. I’m not trying to convince you, but really take a look at it. It is extremely eye opening, especially with the rise of bio-genetic engineering, regrowing body parts, the ability to live forever, programming life and so on. If you can theoretically turn a skin cell into a stem cell and into then a human, could you not theoretically freeze that same skin cell and then hundreds of thousands of years later into the future, reemerge that skin cell and genetically grow or give birth to a human – with the identical genetic makeup of the person that the skin cell came from? What if this has been done? Maybe it hasn’t, but it sure as hell will be and very soon. Check out juan enriquez and craig ventor on ted.com.
There is a plethora of information and things going on today that are evidence of so many anciently taught insights. It’s worth a look for all of you out there. Life isn’t just on earth or earth… life is teaming in the universe and is everywhere. Think about the ability and nature of programming life and what that means for us and for immortality. It is mind-boggling.
Nick,
You are obviously a very intelligent and thoughtful person. When I hear your story, I hear echoes of my own journey nearly thirty years ago. My own journey has taken a strange turn over the last year and a half, but that does not mean that I can refute my original decision to leave all those years ago. I would never criticize others for reaching a different decision, but for me, the ideas of organized religion just do not seem to be based in rational thought. I guess this is where the idea of faith comes in. Unfortunately for me, faith has never been a tangible concept.
At this point in my life I felt it had merit to try to participate in the church for the sake of making my wife happy. As I like to say, I am trying to live the “better story.” Having said that, this decision has in, no way, changed my mind about the thoughtful process that it takes to critically evaluate irrational ideas like God. I told my Stake President that I could only admit to having, “a hope that Jesus was my savior.” He accepted that as good enough for rebaptism. So you see, at least I was honest in my actions.
I left the church on my own accord, and I recently rejoined on my own accord as well. I am making my family happy (mostly my wife since the kids are all adults and have their own families), but I am also sick inside. Like you, I enjoy the lifestyle and opportunities to serve that the church provides. But also like you, I understand that this is a poor substitute for truth.
If your experience is like mine, time will only confirm your original critical evaluation of Christianity. My instinct is that, also like me, you will miss the church more and more as the years pass. Not due to a fear of approaching the great unknown; you have already slayed that demon. Time just seems to have a way of allowing us to see other possibilities; possibilities that really have no basis in truth. I don’t expect that last statement to sound valid in your ears.
I respect your thoughtful and rational approach to life, and I wish you all the best.
Take care my brother.
Nick,
I am so glad I came upon your video and story! I have never had anyone explain it so well–as I have gone through a similar experience of truth seeking process after being in the Mormon church my entire life (62 years). I think that at some point in your life, you have to question all these things that you have been taught are “truths” and see if what your religion is based on is real or not. As Al above stated, I felt “sick inside” too when I went along with it all and went to church, feeling about it as I did.
It is hard to leave your life long beliefs behind and move forward. I’ve been through much soul seeking and have decided that at this point in my life I do not need any organized religion in my life. A very hard thing to do when your husband is still an active Mormon who thinks that someday I will “repent” and come back to his church.
I feel no bitterness toward the Mormon Church and think it had some good things about it, that I will keep. But when you cannot accept the historical origins of a religion, especially the Joseph Smith stuff, then it does make you sick inside to try and stay in that religion.
Thank you, Nick, for explaining so well exactly the process I went through on deciding to leave the Mormon Church–and no one should feel the need to convert any ex-Mormon to any other religion as they can figure out for themselves what they want to believe and what gives them hope in this life. I believe that in order to be happy you need “something to love, something to do, and something to hope for.” And that’s different for every single person!
Janice,
Really? You were willing to put up with Mormonism for 62 years w/o something more tangible than General Conference and monthly home teacher visits? I really don’t understand this addiction that Mormons and former Mormons have/had to Mormonism without something a little more substantial than that. JS claimed to see God, angels, magic gold books, and so on. I would expect any reasonable person to require, no DEMAND, something similiar happn to them to believe him. Otherwise, I wouldn’t waste 62 seconds on Mormonism.
Tobin
Tobin,
I stopped believing in Mormonism many years ago, just kept going to church because it made my husband happy. A dumb reason, especially since I now feel I wasted so many years in it all. It wasn’t any addiction for me, just a life style I was used to. When people are brought up in a religion, it’s hard for some of them to leave it, if it alienates them from their family or community.
That’s sure one reason I don’t want anything to do with religion anymore. You are much happier when you are true to yourself.
Oh, I agree with having a distaste with organzied religion. I grew up Mormon, though I didn’t waste the time. See, I slept through most of it. Mormon church meetings bored the living daylights out of me, even when I was a small boy. In primary I’d find a nice place to curl up and take a nap (that was back when primary was during the week). Actually, what am I saying? The meetings still bore the living daylights out of me, only it is 3 hours long now and finding a nice place to curl up and take a nap is a lot more difficult (plus adults feel the need to wake other adults up – something kids get away with).
In reality though, I left Mormonism after my mission. Did the whole I’m-an-atheist/hedonist/ex-mo thing for about 10 years or so until I happened to run into God. That was a major shocker. Anyway, now that you are off the mainstream Mormonism train, have fun. I would recommend that you look for God and sort that whole thing out sometime. It is easier to have a discussion when you don’t have any preconceptions.
Tobin
Dude, this happened to me in the exact way. I was depressed when I realized that there may not be a God and that being a Mormon was just another way of people to control me, let alone every other religion. It took me about six months to get back out of my depression after my whole religious world, and what I believed crumbled because ignorance was no longer a part of my life. Knowledge is definitely a freeing element in life. I wish we all strived for it. Now I believe that the connection we have is universally based. After all, at the quantum level, we are all vibrating atoms and all created from the same thing… stars. Maybe that’s why civilizations all worshipped the sun.
And Harold wonderfully states that He realized that there may not be a God. The operative word being MAY!!!! It will always be maybe this and maybe that, choose ye this day whom ye would serve.
God Heavenly Father.
Jesus The Christ.
or some other gods. a god of doubt and atheism. For while atheists profess to not believe in God or religion, they have a lot of faith in their non-belief.
Choose and judge for yourselves but as for me and my house we will serve the living God, our father in heaven
Nick:
I read your story and discussion with great interest and sympathy for your shallow thinking. While I am not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I have studied the basis of the church and read much of the Book of Mormon. In the final analysis, it left me with a lot of respect for the LDS movement.
As for the question of God, Heaven and Eternity, you are totally off base. This comes from personal experiences and within my family. There is not enough room, or time, to relate my experiences, but I can unequivocally say there is a God in heaven and He lives. Non-believers cannot come close to proving their stance. There is too many miracles to believe that a higher power does not exist.
Hopefully you will pray about your situation and ask God to come into your heart and accept Jesus Christ as your saviour. If you look at any religious group, the earthly people involved will at times disappoint you. Look beyond what you see in the human structure of various churches, etc. Your thought pattern is too shallow.
May God bless your soul and bring you back to reality in whatever church it may be.
Don B.
Raleigh, NC
in st john 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another a Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will bcome to you
also in John 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 a Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
also in a new testment there is a scripture that saids in the last day mens hearts shall fall them
i just want to say that you have your agency but don’t follow worldly knoledge that everything has to have evidence to be true follow your heart use the comforter(spirit) the lord has promised everyone for like the lord said the spirit shall teach you all things
i know that these thing are true and that happiness dosn’t come from the worldly view of things but it comes from are creator himself are lovng Hevanly Farther
Great for you Nick! Way to get to the bottom of it all. Great point about answers to prayers being subjective.
Stay strong brother.
hay nick i thank you very much for this..i feel the same way..i have the same thoughts about god ..why things happen..with the lds church,its all about MONEY..i just wish more people would see this..bless you jack..have a wonderful day and life monomo
Nick,
Tell the whole story. Just bagging on Mormons is not honest. Where do you stand on the Bible and the inconsistencies contained in it?
What Church leader are you going to follow who is any better than Brigham Young or Jeffrey Holland not to mention Tom Monson?
How is your life now?
Ive seen the groups of ex Mormons with hate in their hearts. What a depressing group to hang out with.
Once I did that, I opened a door that I couldn’t close. Thank you for saying that. I feel the same way.
I have a question as you were searching did you continue to study,
and i mean really study, with the spirit the bible and book of mormon?
with frequent prayer and a wanting to know?
i’m going to guess that if you were you dont know what the spirit is really like
as for the inconsistencies no one is perfect and many of those thing are most likely
rumors put by the advesary to distract you and lead you away from the church
which is not a club
if you think that you are not there for the right reasons
if you want to find real happiness go back a talk to a bishop
see it from the lords eyes
then when you have weighed both options i will respect your choice
Also if you have this series you must also have another one this site going through a devote mormon and what they believe
Logan, Presenting both sides of the story would be an excellent idea! Maybe the LDS church should make the first move by posting some of these “I’m an ex-Mormon videos” on their website. You know, to promote a balanced and informed decision about Mormonism.
LMAO, Nephi! Yeah, I’m sure the LDS church will get right on that…
Wow, I’m impressed with the abundance of speculation and opinion based comments posted on this site. Albert, have you ever looked into where tithing and fast offerings payed to the church goes?? Or was that information just passed through the grape vine and latched onto by all who needed some excuse to live a lazier, less fulfilling lifestyle? Well for your information, there is not a single payed member or leader in all the church. Have you ever bothered to look who is ALWAYS not only the first to aid people in need but the largest donor of goods and services throughout the world. Missionaries serve 2 year service missions in the prime of their lives, leaving behind school, jobs, and girlfriends/ boyfriends to serve the Lord. We use money to bring the gospel truth and happiness to as many as we can throughout the world. We didn’t hurt any of you people and I think you all know, deep down, that there is just something right about the church. Please, for your own sakes, be honest with yourselves and stop wasting your time trying to shake the faith of others.
Nick. I left the church at 17 and returned at age of about 22. Really stated to see all the cliches and started a journey of exit similar to yours at age of 30. To “slkgej6″, I read your response and in typical Mormon fashion, you had an answer and explantion, i.e. “intelligent dfesign”. The church always comes up with some answer, so typical. There may or may not be a god, I do not know. I do marvel at life here on earth and all the science, etc. However, all the explanations of god and religion are just that, explanations. Hopefully mankind will figure it all out in the future, but for now, I just see a lot of refined fantasy.
Why do you have to tell the whole world that you are an ex Mormon? Why can’t you just quietly go about with your business of everyday living? What is so bad about the Mormon church that you have to attack it? Look at all the principles and guidelines of the Mormon church. They possess some very wholesome and meaningful doctrines that we can all use for everyday living. For most you, y’all go where the winds blows.
Thanks for getting this project off the ground. As an exmormon myself I’ve come to find my own voice and love hearing the experiences of others.
I hope you are at the point now that you never waste a minute worrying about Mormon issues. I hope you never see this posting because you have moved too far forward.
Take care my brother.
Hey Nick,
Thank you for sharing your story.
The youtube lecture below helped paint for me a clearer picture on who really is God.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uBVH34b9zU
A person who belongs to a faith/religion should investigate the history and doctrines of that belief. If they are based on man made traditions/theories not supported in the Bible, then there is no light in them (Isaiah 8:20).
Wishing you all the best in the future.
Thanks for sharing your story Nick.
I wish I could be surprised by the amount of diatribe around here. Don’t let it get to you (or anyone else that might be reading).
hello!,I love your writing very so much! proportion we keep up a correspondence extra about your post on AOL? I require an expert on this house to unravel my problem. May be that’s you! Taking a look forward to peer you.